Episode 299: Oh the Humility!

[00:00:00] Very Bad Wizards is a podcast with a philosopher, my dad, and psychologist Dave Pizarro having an informal discussion about issues in science and ethics.

[00:00:09] Please note that the discussion contains bad words that I'm not allowed to say and knowing my dad some very inappropriate jokes.

[00:00:17] I may have fucked my life up flattered and hammered shit, but I stand here before you today beholden to no human cocksucker.

[00:00:25] The Greatest Hunches

[00:01:12] Just a Very Bad Wizard

[00:01:13] Welcome to Very Bad Wizards, I'm Tamler Sommers from the University of Houston.

[00:01:18] Dave, Penn grads are shooting CEOs, Jesse Singel joined Blue Sky and caused a meltdown, and mysterious drones fill the New Jersey skies.

[00:01:29] Have we entered late, late capitalism?

[00:01:34] It's very late. It's like 11.59 p.m. capitalism.

[00:01:41] Totally.

[00:01:41] When you said those three things together, you just get a sense of absurdity.

[00:01:45] You do.

[00:01:45] You get the sense of just like, we're cracking up and it's not gonna get better.

[00:01:52] Like it's past the point.

[00:01:54] You know that Billy Joel song, We Didn't Start the Fire?

[00:01:56] Yeah.

[00:01:57] Imagine that you just put like actual events from the last, whatever, five years into a song.

[00:02:02] People would think it was just like a parody song.

[00:02:05] Right.

[00:02:05] Like it was, drones across New Jersey sky.

[00:02:10] Jesse Singel on Blue Sky.

[00:02:12] Yeah.

[00:02:15] Did you follow that story? I just learned of it today.

[00:02:18] I only saw some of it, but I did see that like people were spreading like block lists of people who follow him.

[00:02:24] And I was like, oh God, man.

[00:02:26] Anyway.

[00:02:26] But that wasn't our topic for today.

[00:02:28] That was not our topic.

[00:02:29] Our topic is drones attacking New Jersey.

[00:02:32] What do you, you probably think it's fine, right?

[00:02:36] I don't know what to make of it, man.

[00:02:38] Oh, really?

[00:02:39] I haven't looked into it enough because I believe that there is a bit of mass hysteria going on where people are reporting normal airplanes as drones.

[00:02:48] Yeah.

[00:02:49] And constellations too.

[00:02:50] And constellations.

[00:02:51] Right.

[00:02:52] And I've seen some videos where it's just clearly somebody moving their phone a lot, you know.

[00:02:56] But is it all that?

[00:02:58] Yeah.

[00:02:58] I don't know.

[00:02:59] Yeah.

[00:02:59] I don't think it's UFOs, but.

[00:03:01] I do think there's a lot of people just like drones have become this new thing.

[00:03:05] But yeah, like what would it be?

[00:03:07] If it's like, it's all, it could be like a military test of some kind.

[00:03:10] And you put New Jersey also, like if you're going to pick a state to do this, like people are already like thinking weird shit is going to happen or Nevada or something, you know.

[00:03:19] Right.

[00:03:20] I also think that once this all started, I bet you drone operators are actually taking their drones up at night.

[00:03:25] At night.

[00:03:26] Just to fuck with people.

[00:03:27] Yeah.

[00:03:28] That's the late, late capitalism thing is like people view this as an opportunity to play like practical jokes on others.

[00:03:36] Right.

[00:03:36] Like unsuspecting and maybe overly credulous people.

[00:03:39] Like, let's just fuck with their minds.

[00:03:41] You know, it's crazy.

[00:03:42] It's like we think about how the world has changed.

[00:03:44] Like one photograph of like a piece of driftwood and Loch Ness for like 60 years had people believing in the Loch Ness monster or like one picture of a guy in an ape suit or one like 16 millimeter video.

[00:03:57] And just years and years of people being convinced.

[00:04:00] Now the cycle is so crazy quick and like everybody has their cell phones and like, and you need more though.

[00:04:06] Like you need more than just like this hard to make black and white blurry picture.

[00:04:11] Yeah.

[00:04:12] But like, it seems like these drones are providing more, you know, UFO sightings didn't used to just stay there for like a week.

[00:04:20] Right.

[00:04:21] There's also just, I think now that we have footage of drones being, have you seen, you know, those crazy camera footage of drones being used to drop bombs and kill people?

[00:04:31] Yeah.

[00:04:31] It's horrible.

[00:04:32] Yeah.

[00:04:32] It's terrible.

[00:04:32] It was Obama's specialty.

[00:04:35] Yeah.

[00:04:35] But I'm talking like now in Ukraine and stuff, like the drones that float, not just the aerial ones that like drop bombs, but these are the ones that are just like go right up to a Russian soldier and they're like trying to run away.

[00:04:46] Yeah.

[00:04:47] And right.

[00:04:48] And that's just, it's touched a deep, I think, fear.

[00:04:52] Like that is a particularly desperate situation to find yourself in.

[00:04:56] You just have this killer thing chasing you.

[00:04:59] So it is horror movie.

[00:05:00] Yeah.

[00:05:01] But yeah, I don't have firm opinions on it because I'm intellectually humble.

[00:05:05] I don't know.

[00:05:05] You took my segue.

[00:05:06] I was going to say your dismissal of the existence of the Loch Ness monster.

[00:05:11] And what was the other one?

[00:05:13] Oh, a Yeti.

[00:05:14] Bigfoot.

[00:05:15] Your wife's a Bigfoot, isn't she, Gus?

[00:05:19] I know a motherfucking Bigfoot when I see one.

[00:05:23] Don't bring a Bigfoot in my home, Gus, with my children.

[00:05:26] The bitch can't talk.

[00:05:28] She can't walk a flight of steps.

[00:05:30] She cannot walk steps.

[00:05:32] I bet she climbed the fuck out of a tree, though, don't she, Gus?

[00:05:36] That is, this was going to be mine, a lack of intellectual humility.

[00:05:41] Yeah, I see.

[00:05:42] Yeah.

[00:05:42] Yeah.

[00:05:43] Sorry.

[00:05:43] I didn't mean to steal that from you.

[00:05:44] Yeah.

[00:05:45] Okay.

[00:05:46] For the second segment, we are going to present for everybody an episode of The Ambulators.

[00:05:55] The Ambulators.

[00:05:56] Normally, an episode-by-episode, scene-by-scene breakdown of the great TV series Deadwood.

[00:06:03] But in this, that we are releasing for the world and not just for our beloved patrons, this is our awards ceremony.

[00:06:12] The Ambies.

[00:06:14] Yes.

[00:06:14] The Ambies.

[00:06:15] The Ambies.

[00:06:16] The Ambies.

[00:06:17] Three seasons of great performances.

[00:06:19] Great quotes, great slurs.

[00:06:23] And we just needed to share our love of this with the world.

[00:06:27] Yes.

[00:06:27] And maybe one day we'll share more of it.

[00:06:29] You never know.

[00:06:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:31] So that's what's coming up in the second segment.

[00:06:33] And the first segment, we thought we'd do for you insane non-Deadwood watchers, something

[00:06:39] that's kind of in between an opening and a main segment.

[00:06:42] Yeah.

[00:06:42] It's an Eon piece, which often is an opening segment material.

[00:06:48] But it's on something, but it's very good.

[00:06:50] It's a really good essay by Rachel Frazier.

[00:06:52] And it's on a concept that I don't know if we've talked about very much, but one that I think we think about a good deal, intellectual humility.

[00:07:03] Yeah.

[00:07:03] I don't know if we've talked about it.

[00:07:04] I mean, we certainly mentioned it, but there's been, as Frazier points out, there's been like this sort of weird boon in interest about this in the last 10 years.

[00:07:14] Like, and I don't know if it's, I guess it's been in philosophy, but definitely in psychology where people have started to try to measure it.

[00:07:21] Yeah.

[00:07:21] Did you look at any of that material?

[00:07:23] I looked at one scale.

[00:07:25] Yeah, I did.

[00:07:26] I didn't have pulled up, but yeah.

[00:07:28] So you saw that you found the one scale.

[00:07:30] Yeah.

[00:07:30] Yeah.

[00:07:30] I mean, like we don't have to make it about that.

[00:07:33] That's not what the essay is about.

[00:07:34] I think as she says, there is something a little, if not contradictory, at least there's a tension between testing by self report for how humble somebody is.

[00:07:47] That's the big problem.

[00:07:48] Yeah.

[00:07:48] Yeah.

[00:07:48] I was talking to my colleague, Gord Pennycook here, who has done some work on it showing that it basically doesn't predict anything that you might expect.

[00:07:57] And that's his take too.

[00:07:58] He's like, there's just this big irony.

[00:08:00] Like if you ask people to rate how humble they are, you're not getting what you want.

[00:08:03] Right.

[00:08:04] You might have to reverse, reverse code.

[00:08:09] Yeah.

[00:08:09] Do some sort of super logarithmic transformation.

[00:08:13] Yeah.

[00:08:13] So there's a couple of things going on in this essay.

[00:08:16] Number one is just talking about, I think this is the main aspect of this essay.

[00:08:22] And it's a, what's the title?

[00:08:23] Against humility.

[00:08:24] Against humility.

[00:08:25] Against humility.

[00:08:26] And so she is going to talk about why intellectual humility isn't always an epistemic virtue.

[00:08:32] But then there's also the question of virtue epistemology and its place there.

[00:08:37] Yeah.

[00:08:37] Should we talk for a second about virtue epistemology and then go?

[00:08:42] I'd never heard the term before.

[00:08:43] Yeah.

[00:08:44] So sure.

[00:08:45] I don't know a ton about it.

[00:08:46] I know a little bit about it.

[00:08:48] And it's like the easiest way to understand it if you're familiar with virtue ethics versus a kind of act-based ethical system is shifting your emphasis from having good epistemological procedures to put in place.

[00:09:05] In the same way that you're like act-based ethical theories are focused on, okay, what you're facing an ethical decision, this one decision.

[00:09:14] What principle can you bring to it to tell you what to do?

[00:09:17] And virtue ethics is like, no, no, no, that gets too precise and narrow.

[00:09:22] And ethics isn't like that.

[00:09:23] What you have to do – and this starts with Aristotle and Plato too – you have to develop virtues, moral virtues that will allow you to act in the way that it is appropriate in a given situation.

[00:09:38] Be sensitive to the particulars that no general theory could ever account for, all the different messy ways and choices that morality can face.

[00:09:49] So our best bet is to just develop good characters and then we're going to be more likely to do the right thing in the right situation.

[00:09:57] But also it's just a way to a good life is being a morally virtuous person.

[00:10:03] So similarly, like epistemology is always focused on, you know, is this a justified belief?

[00:10:08] What makes it justified?

[00:10:10] Is it a case of knowledge?

[00:10:12] And the virtue epistemologists say, look, that'll all depend.

[00:10:16] Again, the thing to focus on is what are the intellectual virtues, the kinds of traits and dispositions that will allow you to, you know, not without exception, but it will allow you to have a better sense of what's true and what's not, what's real and what's not, and when you should be agnostic.

[00:10:37] That's where virtue epistemology comes in.

[00:10:41] People use it as a way of solving the problem of induction by saying, you know, a little bit similar to what you were saying, a full foundational justification for what we consider to be science or our sense of the world.

[00:10:58] That's not possible.

[00:11:00] And so we shouldn't expect it.

[00:11:02] And we shouldn't be worried about a skeptical claim that says that will have to be circular no matter what, because we're going to shift the focus to the intellectual virtues.

[00:11:12] And then that will tell us whether our scientific methods and our, you know, observational techniques are actually likely to give us knowledge or understanding.

[00:11:24] And people have also tried to use it to get around a Gettier problem.

[00:11:27] But that, in my view, is a pseudo problem.

[00:11:30] And so it doesn't need to be solved.

[00:11:32] But yeah, I don't know.

[00:11:33] Like, I kind of like the idea of a virtue epistemology.

[00:11:36] I think people should focus on do they have the proper epistemic traits or dispositions that will allow them to handle the very incomplete evidence that we get and even to know what counts as evidence and what doesn't count as evidence.

[00:11:52] These are things that are part of your character.

[00:11:54] How can you assess them?

[00:11:56] How well can you assess them?

[00:11:58] And it does, I think, make more sense often to talk about that in terms of your virtues.

[00:12:02] Yeah, she says this thing that was intriguing to me at the very beginning.

[00:12:06] At their most ambitious, the virtue epistemologist argues not just that such traits are valuable for their own sake or that the exercise of such virtues will tend to yield knowledge, but further that our grasp of what knowledge is in the first place parasitic on our understanding of such virtues.

[00:12:21] That's what I mean where that's trying to solve like a question that I think is a pseudo question, like what knowledge is.

[00:12:27] Knowledge isn't anything, like in my view.

[00:12:30] Makes sense that you would believe that.

[00:12:32] She believes that actually.

[00:12:33] Yeah.

[00:12:34] You find that out, I think, at the end.

[00:12:36] Although it's not, she's not explicit about it.

[00:12:38] Yeah.

[00:12:38] And yeah, of course it makes sense.

[00:12:40] Like I guess I would have the same questions I have about virtue ethics, which is still there seems to be that there is content to the things that the virtuous person does.

[00:12:49] That if not principled, certainly capable of being stated in a way that is rule-like.

[00:12:58] But I don't know.

[00:12:59] I don't know that we have to go there.

[00:13:00] But it still does make sense that when you do think about what it means to have intellectual humility specifically, for instance, or any of the other virtues, you can't help but think of people.

[00:13:12] Like examples.

[00:13:12] The people that you think really capture the essence of what it means to be, say, a good scientist or a good philosopher.

[00:13:18] Those really are the things that come to mind when I'm thinking about these things.

[00:13:23] So like I think I've explicitly in my life tried to think to myself, what would so-and-so believe or say or do about this evidence or about this claim?

[00:13:31] So if you do say that, that does show that you have some inclination towards the virtue ethicist or the virtue epistemologist, I mean, right?

[00:13:40] Yeah.

[00:13:40] At least it's appealing to me psychologically.

[00:13:43] Like I think that it's hard not to think of these things outside of the example of a person who's doing them.

[00:13:49] And so I kind of like thinking of it in that way.

[00:13:51] I think that's how education works.

[00:13:53] I think that's how we learn from others, I think.

[00:13:55] Totally.

[00:13:56] Yeah.

[00:13:56] And it's a useful way of, I don't know, if I don't consciously know all of the explicit propositional rules for making good inferences, it's easier for me psychologically to think of how it would be that my whatever, my master, my teacher would do it.

[00:14:11] And she comes, you know, at the end to I think of you that's also kind of critical of the virtue epistemologist.

[00:14:18] Like she doesn't think that there are going to be virtues that work in any kind of rule-like way.

[00:14:24] But I don't, I think she thinks that there's also going to be rules either.

[00:14:28] You know, and it's an interesting point what you say about like when you're confronted with something that you don't know how to think about, you look for models.

[00:14:36] But part of me thinks we're not looking for models in a way of trying to break down what is it that they have in them?

[00:14:44] What character traits do they have that I want to also have so I can approach things in that way?

[00:14:51] Or at least some of the time, some of the time we're just kind of absorbing the way they talk about something in a way that we would find it a little hard to describe if pressed.

[00:15:01] But we are just taking it in their way of approaching the facts or the, you know, the pieces of the data that they have in front of them.

[00:15:10] Um, I'm thinking especially of like texts when people talk about texts or something like that.

[00:15:16] And I've been very influenced by just hearing people talk about texts in a way that I find, oh my God, that illuminates it so clearly.

[00:15:25] But if you asked me to figure out like what is it about these people or what is it about what they're doing?

[00:15:30] I would have a hard time describing it in any kind of general way.

[00:15:33] But I still sometimes feel like at my best I'm absorbing it.

[00:15:37] I don't know. Do you see what I'm saying?

[00:15:38] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think what you're saying is sort of agnostic as to whether there are things that could be said that are explicit.

[00:15:44] Yeah.

[00:15:45] Yes, right.

[00:15:45] And that's why I say like psychologically I feel the same way.

[00:15:48] Like it's you pick up things, you learn things that you may or may not be able to describe formally.

[00:15:53] But like for acting in the world, there's no need to describe them formally often.

[00:15:57] Right. The fact that you can't describe them formally doesn't mean that they can't be described formally.

[00:16:02] Right.

[00:16:02] Or that they're not there. Yeah.

[00:16:03] Okay. So then that's the first part of this.

[00:16:06] But the second part, which I think is more of the central focus of the essay is.

[00:16:10] So let's just say we are virtue epistemologists.

[00:16:14] Like there's still the question of what are the intellectual virtues.

[00:16:18] And she says that kind of goes in and out like according to fashion.

[00:16:22] But one that's very fashionable right now is intellectual humility.

[00:16:27] So before we dive into her argument and the essay and the examples, which I think are good, what's your take on intellectual humility before like reading this or, you know, knowing that we were going to talk about it?

[00:16:42] I struggle with it, man, because there is something that is so appealing to me about the notion that we should be intellectually humble.

[00:16:50] But it is always intention.

[00:16:52] This is the nice thing that she's pointing out in this essay is there's this tension between like that seems super right.

[00:16:58] Right. It seems as if what you want to do is never be so certain that you're arrogant and you lose sight of the possibility that you might be wrong.

[00:17:05] And so is that a general attitude or approach that we should hold?

[00:17:09] I don't know. Like, I think I have a take that I was working out after reading this essay.

[00:17:15] So I'll save it, I think, after discussing her arguments.

[00:17:19] But I'll just say that I'm pulled by the thought that as the opposite of arrogance, it seems right to me.

[00:17:25] That it is a virtue.

[00:17:26] That it's a virtue that we should inculcate in others.

[00:17:29] Yeah.

[00:17:29] What about you?

[00:17:29] I mean, I think it depends for sure.

[00:17:32] But like certainly I would say that I have been pulled more towards people who show intellectual humility.

[00:17:39] I have often invoked intellectual humility when speaking about things like the possibility of ghosts, you know.

[00:17:46] And I think people who just dismiss that out of hand.

[00:17:49] And I think people who take an overly, you know, materialist and especially reductionist materialist view.

[00:17:56] And, you know, certainly that kind of new atheist typically doesn't exhibit whether or not they're right about these things.

[00:18:04] They don't exhibit a lot of intellectual humility, which always kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

[00:18:08] So I think I am drawn to it.

[00:18:13] But I also agree with the author and we'll talk about her cases that there are times where intellectual humility is not what's called for.

[00:18:21] And in fact, it could be like a real problem.

[00:18:26] You've just made me sort of explicitly realize this difference between us, which is that your go-to example of people who ring as not intellectually humble is the reductionist materialist new atheist.

[00:18:41] And for me, on the other hand, having been raised around a lot of dogmatic religious people, it's exactly the opposite.

[00:18:48] Where it's like it takes a lot of humility to accept that your religion might be wrong.

[00:18:53] Yeah.

[00:18:53] To even open yourself up to that possibility and think that the sciences might have answers that you thought were purely based on faith.

[00:19:00] Yeah.

[00:19:01] I mean, it's interesting.

[00:19:02] So I think there's a certain kind of person where, yes, of course, and I know that there are these religious fundamentalists, not saying your parents are like that, but there are these fundamentalists that claim to be certain.

[00:19:14] You know, Bible is the literal truth of God.

[00:19:16] You're an idiot.

[00:19:17] Like my relatives used to make fun of me because I believed in Darwinism.

[00:19:21] You know, like, oh, so we were monkeys once?

[00:19:23] Okay.

[00:19:24] And whatever.

[00:19:25] Like, but I was talking to a grad student the other day and something clicked for me.

[00:19:29] He also comes from a Southern Baptist kind of family.

[00:19:32] And he, you know, went off.

[00:19:34] He never really bought it and is now, you know, a total atheist and actually a listener of the show.

[00:19:42] So I hope I'm capturing this right.

[00:19:44] But I remember asking him, like, so your parents know what you believe.

[00:19:48] Do you, like, talk about it with them?

[00:19:50] Do you debate it with them?

[00:19:51] Like, how do they respond to the kind of normal critiques, especially of a kind of young earth kind of creationism?

[00:20:01] And he was saying that they don't.

[00:20:03] Like, they just don't think about it.

[00:20:05] You know, like, it might not even be an arrogance as much as, and this is the thing that kind of popped into my head.

[00:20:10] There are certain things that are open to question and that we're willing to question and can completely change our minds in ways that would change our lives.

[00:20:19] And then there are other things that we just don't do that with.

[00:20:23] And, like, I don't know if that's a matter of arrogance versus humility as we probably all have these things.

[00:20:29] It's just we don't all have the same ones that are on or off the table for reassessing, you know?

[00:20:36] Yeah, maybe that's right.

[00:20:37] You know, there definitely are people like that.

[00:20:39] I would say my parents aren't arrogant at all in that way.

[00:20:42] And my father particularly is that way.

[00:20:45] He just won't think about questioning.

[00:20:47] Like, it's so obvious to him.

[00:20:48] But is it because it's so obvious or it's just that that's not in the realm of things that I'm going through?

[00:20:53] I don't know.

[00:20:54] It's how he just believes it so fully.

[00:20:56] Yeah.

[00:20:57] So, like, if you tell him about, like, evolution, he thinks, wow, it's crazy that people believe that.

[00:21:01] Okay.

[00:21:02] And then that's it, right?

[00:21:03] And that's it.

[00:21:04] You know, the arrogance of the religious people that I was raised around often presents itself more as arrogance toward other people who have slightly different religious beliefs.

[00:21:14] Yeah.

[00:21:14] Yeah.

[00:21:14] Where, like, I don't even bother to tackle, like, the atheist because, like, why bother?

[00:21:18] Right.

[00:21:19] It's more like they really think that that's what the Bible is saying about Revelation?

[00:21:23] Ha ha.

[00:21:23] We know the truth.

[00:21:24] Dumb asses.

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:26] Right, right.

[00:21:27] No.

[00:21:27] You think Revelation 13.7 refers to that?

[00:21:30] Yeah.

[00:21:31] It's the narcissism of small differences.

[00:21:32] Yeah.

[00:21:33] I just thought it's kind of interesting that there are certain things because the way my grad student was describing it, it's not even like he thinks everybody else is crazy.

[00:21:42] He just, like, he wouldn't get into that kind of thought process of, oh, these people are crazy.

[00:21:48] They believe something false, which it sounds like your dad is, like, it's more like questioning, like, do I actually breathe air or something like that?

[00:21:57] You're past that.

[00:21:59] And I don't know, like, I didn't really think too hard about it afterwards, but I wonder if there are certain things like that for us, you know?

[00:22:06] I'm sure.

[00:22:06] Yeah.

[00:22:07] I'm sure.

[00:22:07] I just don't want to know them.

[00:22:09] No.

[00:22:09] That's right.

[00:22:10] Because we want to be fully epistemically virtuous agents.

[00:22:14] That's how they talk, I'm almost sure.

[00:22:17] An intellectually virtuous agent.

[00:22:19] Agent.

[00:22:20] All right.

[00:22:20] Should we go through this essay?

[00:22:22] Yeah.

[00:22:22] Because I'm curious to think especially what her central example.

[00:22:25] Yeah.

[00:22:26] So, okay.

[00:22:27] Should we talk about that then?

[00:22:28] You want to give the example?

[00:22:29] Yeah.

[00:22:30] So she talks about Simone de Beauvoir's mid-century masterpiece, The Mandarins, as this sort of way of describing these three different kinds of people.

[00:22:38] So this is right as World War II is coming to a close.

[00:22:42] And it's a group of left-wing intellectuals who encounter a person, a former Soviet person, who says, hey, guess what?

[00:22:51] At its heart, the Soviet Union is, like, doing terrible things.

[00:22:55] Specifically, they're relying on a brutal system of forced labor camps.

[00:23:01] Right.

[00:23:02] And so there's three characters who are very into socialism and want to believe that the Soviet regime is, like, humanity's hope.

[00:23:11] And so this information, of course, goes counter to those beliefs.

[00:23:14] Right.

[00:23:14] And you could kind of see it, right?

[00:23:16] Like, are these labor camps actually happening that this guy George is describing?

[00:23:23] Or is this some kind of conspiracy?

[00:23:27] Or there's, you know, like, is it just a false testimony of some kind that George heard?

[00:23:33] You know, you could see how you would be in a position of not being sure what to think about it.

[00:23:38] But especially for Henri and Robert in this, it's like they want to believe, like you said, that the Soviet Union is the last hope for humanity.

[00:23:50] Like, this kind of communist way of life is something that will take us forward.

[00:23:55] Yeah.

[00:23:56] Well, so one of them is convinced that the labor camps are real.

[00:23:59] Yeah.

[00:23:59] After listening to George.

[00:24:01] Yeah, that's right.

[00:24:02] Yeah.

[00:24:03] And he thinks the evidence is varied from many sources and he can't, in good faith, really doubt it anymore.

[00:24:11] Yeah.

[00:24:11] And so he gives up.

[00:24:13] He says, in Russia too, he thinks men were working other men to death.

[00:24:17] Yeah.

[00:24:17] Whereas Robert is like, I don't know, man.

[00:24:20] Like, hold your horses.

[00:24:21] Let's not be too hasty to come to a conclusion.

[00:24:24] We have so many good reasons to believe that this is a good system.

[00:24:28] We can't just let one guy come in and completely upend this.

[00:24:32] Yeah.

[00:24:33] Right?

[00:24:33] I mean, you can think of this as like, are they updating their beliefs properly?

[00:24:38] They're not updating their priors.

[00:24:40] Well, so, yeah.

[00:24:42] And like her point is, Henri is the hero of the story or he deserves more praise.

[00:24:49] He couldn't arrive at certainty about it, but the evidence he judged was enough.

[00:24:55] Whereas Robert and Anne, you know, under, I guess, I don't want to say the guise because it's not necessarily a guise or a pretense.

[00:25:03] But they said, look, we have to be agnostic about this because we really don't have enough evidence either way.

[00:25:09] So her point is, yeah, it's Henri that was the epistemically virtuous person here or the overall, all things considered, virtuous person here.

[00:25:18] But she, I think, wants to say he showed not moral courage, but like intellectual courage in believing it, whereas Robert and Anne did not.

[00:25:28] So in this case, intellectual humility would be a vice, not a virtue.

[00:25:33] Yeah.

[00:25:34] This is where it gets confusing to me.

[00:25:36] Like, I'm not sure.

[00:25:37] One of the things that she points out is that it's very hard not to be driven by an outcome bias, like who turned out to be right.

[00:25:44] Yeah.

[00:25:45] Feels like it feeds so much into which one you want to call virtuous.

[00:25:50] And that I think is true.

[00:25:52] But what is the intellectually humble person here?

[00:25:55] Yeah.

[00:25:56] Right.

[00:25:56] You can say Henri is saying, well, let's not be too hasty.

[00:26:01] And that sounds humble.

[00:26:02] But he could also be saying, I refuse to change my mind, which is not humble.

[00:26:07] So like, I'm not exactly sure.

[00:26:09] Why would you say he was humble?

[00:26:11] Henri is the one who believes that the labor camps are real.

[00:26:15] Yeah.

[00:26:16] So I would say you could say he's humble because he's actually willing to discard a cherished belief based on evidence.

[00:26:22] You mean the cherished belief being that the Soviet Union and Russian communism is actually something that's a force for good and wouldn't do that.

[00:26:32] Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:32] I totally agree.

[00:26:33] Yeah.

[00:26:33] I 100% agree with that.

[00:26:35] This is, I think, the problem with bringing in moral and political and ideological commitments into it.

[00:26:41] Like, you could argue that Robert and Anne were just too certain arrogantly about the justness of the Soviet regime.

[00:26:54] Yeah, that Henri was being intellectually humble.

[00:26:56] I think, I get what she's saying, though.

[00:26:59] So I think a lot of people, like when it comes to, say, Israel and Gaza, who don't want to take a stand against something that would make them really reassess a lot of their background beliefs, is they'll say, well, that region is really complicated.

[00:27:14] And who knows?

[00:27:15] Like, I don't want to pass moral judgment on Israel.

[00:27:18] I don't want to pass moral, you know, I just want to.

[00:27:19] And that, I don't know, sometimes it's just an easy, convenient way to not opine on a provocative and very combustible subject, one where a lot of people have a lot of strong feelings.

[00:27:33] And I think they actually, sometimes, sometimes it's strategic, but sometimes I think it is genuinely that they think I have to be humble here.

[00:27:42] And, you know, the issue is like, but haven't you seen enough?

[00:27:47] You know, like, if you really, if you've really being honest here, haven't you seen enough?

[00:27:52] Or if you haven't, couldn't you just like confirm a couple of things and then actually have an opinion?

[00:27:56] And so it does seem a little bit non-virtuous at times.

[00:28:00] I'm not saying like they have to do that.

[00:28:02] Like, that's why that example kind of resonates with me as maybe intellectual humility in certain cases, especially morally charged or politically charged cases isn't that much of a virtue.

[00:28:13] But I totally get your point.

[00:28:14] Like, you could also say that's not the issue here is like it's more like honesty.

[00:28:20] Yeah.

[00:28:21] Like what you're saying is right.

[00:28:23] I mean, it's a concern I have with myself often, which is I, as you know, don't like to opine on things for which I know I have no expertise.

[00:28:32] And I think there are more people saying things before knowing shit than there are, you know, people waiting patiently until they're sure.

[00:28:41] But am I being a coward?

[00:28:42] Right.

[00:28:42] And that's the words that she uses.

[00:28:44] When is intellectual humility a mask for cowardice?

[00:28:46] Right.

[00:28:46] And that's certainly a concern I've had about myself.

[00:28:49] Like, if I were in a situation like Nazi Germany, would I have spoken out or would I have said, let's just wait and see what this Adolf guy's plans are?

[00:28:59] Am I being a coward about it?

[00:29:01] And I don't know.

[00:29:02] Maybe there is a difference in these moral realms than in just the purely like dispassionate scientific realm.

[00:29:08] But even in those cases, you have stakes usually in whether something is true or not.

[00:29:13] Not always, but often.

[00:29:15] Right.

[00:29:16] Like the I want to believe thing can apply to most, not just moral cases.

[00:29:21] I kind of think, though, what you're talking about, the thing that you're worried about isn't that you have an excess of epistemic humility.

[00:29:28] The thing that you're worried about is cowardice versus courage.

[00:29:31] Right.

[00:29:32] And the question about using the language of humility to mask cowardice.

[00:29:35] But then that's not really about epistemic humility.

[00:29:38] That's about the kind of using it as a way to not face the questions that you'd rather not face.

[00:29:44] That's right.

[00:29:44] That's right.

[00:29:45] That's right.

[00:29:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:29:46] Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:29:46] So I was left with thinking, so what if we can't even make sense of a, in her central example, it's not clear to me which character is truly intellectually humble and which one isn't.

[00:29:58] Or whether or not intellectual humility is really playing a role here.

[00:30:01] Yeah.

[00:30:01] Then maybe the concept itself isn't a very good one to use to evaluate somebody's epistemic character or whatever it is you call it.

[00:30:10] Because it's so hard to isolate.

[00:30:12] Yeah.

[00:30:13] Is that more true of this than the moral virtues?

[00:30:16] That's what I was trying to think.

[00:30:18] Like, you could ask the same of courage, I suppose.

[00:30:21] Like, when is it courage and when is it, you know, error?

[00:30:23] But it's true that, like, it wouldn't be as easy to be like, I think this person was actually a coward.

[00:30:27] I think this person was actually courageous in a kind of paradigm case.

[00:30:32] Like, it wouldn't be as easy to just completely reverse the things.

[00:30:36] No, right.

[00:30:36] Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:37] Like, I think it is in some cases with humility because there's so many different dimensions of things that you have to consider in, like, an entire web of belief.

[00:30:47] Yeah, I think that's right.

[00:30:48] Yeah.

[00:30:48] But, like, I think there are times, like, I think I'm clearly the more intellectually humble person when it comes to belief in the, you know, non-material and ghosts and UFOs and things like that.

[00:31:02] And I think you would say you're too humble about these things, right?

[00:31:06] Like, we wouldn't disagree about the fact that I'm being, like, and I'm not using it as a pose.

[00:31:12] I actually do feel like when it comes to these kinds of things, we don't understand the world well enough to rule things out in a way that other people seem more comfortable doing, right?

[00:31:22] And I agree that that's a question of whether that's virtuous or not.

[00:31:25] But it seems pretty clear, right?

[00:31:27] Like, that that's...

[00:31:28] Well, that's why I'm not sure if humility is the right concept.

[00:31:31] Like, and that's what I was struggling with.

[00:31:33] So it's like, okay, if you're less certain than I am about something, is that the same as humility?

[00:31:41] Right.

[00:31:41] So this is where I was landing at, where the way that I use the word humble, I think, to refer to people in a good way is usually not really coextensive with certainty.

[00:31:53] It's like, it's not the same thing as saying I'm less sure or I'm more sure, but rather a particular attitude that you take toward yourself and toward others.

[00:32:03] So let's move away from epistemic and go toward athletics.

[00:32:07] So there are arrogant athletes and there are humble athletes.

[00:32:11] And the humble athletes, I don't think, are any less certain that they're really good.

[00:32:16] So like, take two superstars who are at the top of their game.

[00:32:19] And if you ask them, like, God's honest truth, lie detector here, are you capable of taking anybody in the NBA one-on-one?

[00:32:26] Both of them say yeah.

[00:32:27] One of them, though, acts in an arrogant fashion toward others.

[00:32:32] So he talks a lot of trash, lets people know that he thinks he can take them.

[00:32:36] He says he's the greatest of all time, whatever, all these things.

[00:32:39] And the other one is just as a matter of acting toward other people does not display this.

[00:32:46] I think that's the way that I find the virtue of humility playing out.

[00:32:50] Like, I like it as a way of dealing with other people and maybe as a way of saying, look, I believe I'm the best, but that doesn't make me a better person or whatever the case may be.

[00:33:02] I do, but I'm not sure that applies as easily in the case of intellectual humility just because there is this output that is separate from how you're treating other people, which is just what do you take to be true and what do you – being more agnostic about.

[00:33:19] Yeah.

[00:33:20] So that's what I was thinking.

[00:33:21] Like, I think that when you talk about an intellectually humble person, we might actually be using it the same way as we're using it in athletes.

[00:33:30] And that what we're getting at is somebody who really listens to other people when they're objecting.

[00:33:36] But they might be just as likely to disagree and say, well, you know, I appreciate your position on this.

[00:33:42] I think the evidence is clear.

[00:33:43] Yeah.

[00:33:43] Versus somebody who says, like, I can't believe you would believe that.

[00:33:47] You're an idiot.

[00:33:47] It's like fucking absurd.

[00:33:48] Yeah.

[00:33:48] Right?

[00:33:49] Where the certainty is the same, but it's just like – I don't know.

[00:33:52] I think humility really to me is a social virtue.

[00:33:55] Right.

[00:33:55] Rather than one else.

[00:33:57] Yeah.

[00:33:57] I see what you're saying.

[00:33:58] Like, even the new atheist is a good example of this in that, like, if they privately believed some of the things that they believe and they publicized, like, I don't think anyone would have had a problem with it.

[00:34:11] People are always kind of atheist on the spectrum and have various different – but it was just how they talked about it and how they treated it and ridiculed it that I think rubbed people the wrong way and said, you know, they show no intellectual humility.

[00:34:24] So that's part of it.

[00:34:25] But part of it also was the lack of doing any actual, you know, broader, more open-minded research as to what it is they were attacking and stuff like that.

[00:34:36] And that is something that isn't ultimately related.

[00:34:39] I mean, like, it can be related to other people.

[00:34:41] Like, maybe they didn't talk to enough more sophisticated religious people.

[00:34:46] Yeah, that's actually – yeah, right.

[00:34:48] And we've talked to Sam about this specifically, I think, before, I think, on the podcast when we were talking about mockery.

[00:34:53] Yeah.

[00:34:54] And he made the case that sometimes mockery, like, actually does some real good, that, like, it serves to show how absurd somebody's position is.

[00:35:02] And I actually think that that's where a lot of these types went wrong, where if you had a real conversation with, say, a respected thinker of a particular –

[00:35:11] Yeah, a church.

[00:35:11] – religious persuasion, you could say, like, that's interesting.

[00:35:15] You know where I come from.

[00:35:16] I don't think – like, I would want evidence, but I can see why this means a lot to you.

[00:35:20] Like, even there, like, secretly, if in my heart I'm thinking, man, that's crazy to believe in, like, the bearded man in the sky.

[00:35:27] But I don't say that.

[00:35:29] Like, I actually treat people as if their views – maybe even thinking, let me understand why this person believes something that's so fundamentally different from me.

[00:35:37] That, I think, is what you need.

[00:35:38] It's not just the treating them well but thinking privately you're crazy.

[00:35:42] No, it's the real trying to understand.

[00:35:44] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:35:45] So, yeah, I think we might agree.

[00:35:47] I do think there is a difference.

[00:35:49] Like, take you and I and our opinion about certain things, especially on the slightly more supernatural sides of things.

[00:35:57] I don't think either of us treat anybody badly.

[00:36:01] I mean I take shit on Reddit and, you know, an email and all that.

[00:36:05] But, like, I don't think either of us are necessarily more or less socially treating each other in a way that kind of speaks to the dimension of humility that you're talking about.

[00:36:16] But there is, like, a substantive difference between our stances on these things.

[00:36:20] Now, maybe that's just a result of, like, we've been presented with different kinds of evidence.

[00:36:25] But I think at least part of it – but it may be a very small part – is due to probably our just general epistemological makeup.

[00:36:33] You know, because it does seem to translate to these other areas where I'm more inclined to give some credence to what you people would call conspiracy theories.

[00:36:42] It seems like that same attitude does extend.

[00:36:46] Yeah.

[00:36:46] There's where we do disagree, where I think that we just have different notions about which domains we should be open to.

[00:36:53] Whereas I think you're pretty closed off to, like, a lot of things in other domains.

[00:36:57] I think you have just as much vehement expression of disagreement.

[00:37:01] So if I have strong reason to not believe in UFOs because the evidence just isn't quite there, like, I'm just convinced there.

[00:37:10] To me, it's not like, oh, I'm not humble enough to think that there's a bearded man in the sky.

[00:37:14] Yeah.

[00:37:14] In the same way that you're not like, oh, I'm not humble enough to think that I might be wrong about this.

[00:37:18] We have just different rules about which domains we think we have firmness in our convictions.

[00:37:23] Yeah.

[00:37:23] Right.

[00:37:24] You probably have more firmness in your aesthetic convictions than I do.

[00:37:27] Right.

[00:37:28] You probably truly believe that there are works of art that are great.

[00:37:33] Yeah.

[00:37:33] I'm not humble about my belief that Interstellar isn't a good movie.

[00:37:37] Right.

[00:37:38] Right.

[00:37:38] Right.

[00:37:39] Or that Marvel is like, no, like, there's actually, like, really good reason to think that these are well-crafted movies.

[00:37:43] It's like Homer.

[00:37:44] It's like the myths.

[00:37:48] It's all Homer when you get down to it.

[00:37:50] It is all Homer.

[00:37:51] And maybe even deeper, as we'll, I'm sure, be talking about quite soon, actually.

[00:37:56] Because it looks like the winner for our Patreon-selected listener episode is going to be Joseph Campbell.

[00:38:02] So, no, I think you've convinced me, actually.

[00:38:05] Partly this is my epistemic humility in action.

[00:38:09] Because I think I did think there was a more substantive difference.

[00:38:12] And I still think there might be, you know, but it's a tinier percentage by a lot than when I started this conversation.

[00:38:20] She gives another case, which I think is interesting, and then we should wrap up.

[00:38:24] But, like, of this Barbara McClintock who was a biologist that studied corn.

[00:38:31] And I didn't look at the details.

[00:38:32] So maybe you know the details.

[00:38:33] But the basic idea was everyone told her, no, this isn't going to be right.

[00:38:37] You're weird theories about it.

[00:38:38] And she just ignored them all, stuck with it, and ended up winning a Nobel Prize.

[00:38:44] And there's a separate question of whether intellectual humility as a scientist is a good thing to have.

[00:38:53] And I think this is where, and she uses this almost as a reductio ad absurdum.

[00:38:58] It really breaks down as a way of saying, like, it is a virtue.

[00:39:02] Because I think, like, it's probably not a virtue earlier in your career.

[00:39:07] It's probably not a virtue depending on, like, what you're working on and who you're working with.

[00:39:11] And like you said, it would even be hard to figure out what the intellectually humble thing is in a lot of these cases.

[00:39:19] But I thought that was interesting.

[00:39:20] Her point was here's a case where she had no epistemic humility, which I actually think seems right from the description.

[00:39:27] But that turned out to be a really good thing epistemologically.

[00:39:31] Right.

[00:39:31] She was obstinate in her belief.

[00:39:32] Yeah.

[00:39:33] Again, this is where I was like, okay, but, like, that all her peers thought that she was crazy strikes me as a condemnation of their lack of intellectual humility as well.

[00:39:44] Right?

[00:39:45] So it's like she's upping McClintock's obstinate belief in her own data.

[00:39:50] But you would think that the example could have easily just have been made for, like, the other clown scientists who were unwilling to think for a moment that their entrenched beliefs were right.

[00:40:01] And presumably the data were on her side, you know?

[00:40:03] Well, we don't know because, like, it could have been watching.

[00:40:05] Well, it turned out to be.

[00:40:06] But it raises a question.

[00:40:08] So in this case, I bought that she was not being intellectually humble just because everyone else disagreed with her and she was one person.

[00:40:17] And so it seems like the intellectually humble thing would be, like, what are the odds that I'm right and everybody else is wrong?

[00:40:24] And in that way, she wasn't humble.

[00:40:28] But this is the problem, I think, with seeing it purely at an individualist enterprise, right?

[00:40:34] Because probably it makes sense in certain contexts based on who you're collaborating with and what the state of the field is to take a hard line and see where it goes.

[00:40:44] And other times it's like, oh, no, like, I'm off base in this.

[00:40:47] Like, let me see where they're coming from.

[00:40:49] And, like, and this is her point, too.

[00:40:52] She didn't make it like that.

[00:40:53] But, like, you can't tease these things apart in a way that you can have a recipe for an intellectually virtuous or an epistemically virtuous agent if you just practice these things.

[00:41:07] Because they're going to need to be calibrated on and off depending on the context always.

[00:41:12] For sure.

[00:41:13] But I think that there is the extra problem that the concept of intellectual humility is just unclear to me what it is and which way it goes.

[00:41:20] So the way that she describes McClintock, for instance, here she says, McClintock herself was insistent that her work required a kind of quiet certainty, that the judgments she made required complete confidence.

[00:41:30] And if the opposite of humility is arrogance, it doesn't sound like that's what she was.

[00:41:36] It makes me think, again, that sort of what we think of as humility is orthogonal to certainty.

[00:41:40] She might just think, look, I got to take this to the end of the line, you know?

[00:41:43] Yeah.

[00:41:44] And I know they might think I'm crazy, but, you know, that's how scientific advances work.

[00:41:49] She's like, let me keep my head down and keep working.

[00:41:51] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:41:52] So the way she describes it, she says,

[00:41:55] Barbara McClintock serves to illustrate a key dictum of Friedrich Nietzsche's psychology.

[00:41:59] And beyond good and evil, Nietzsche argued that even our noblest impulses are thoroughly mingled with our darker, wickeder drives.

[00:42:06] It's McClintock's love of her corn plants and her egotism, her creativity and caustic obstinacy.

[00:42:12] All these form a cohesive whole.

[00:42:14] There's something facile in the attempt to split them off from each other to hypostasize the good aspects of her character as separate from the bad.

[00:42:23] Like, I couldn't agree more with that.

[00:42:25] I thought you would.

[00:42:26] Like, I'm not, I don't know enough about McClintock and her character, but I just thought, was she really an egotist?

[00:42:33] Like, what is the dark and wicked part of her character?

[00:42:36] But, you know, like the point is your greatest weakness is also often your strength.

[00:42:43] And, you know, maybe darker and wickeder is too strong, but like noblest and, you know, a lot less noble.

[00:42:50] Yeah, yeah.

[00:42:50] You know?

[00:42:50] Yeah, no, totally.

[00:42:52] That makes sense.

[00:42:52] That makes sense.

[00:42:53] Yeah.

[00:42:53] Yeah.

[00:42:53] I love that.

[00:42:54] And I do think like there's just no way, like, you know, there's a time.

[00:42:58] Like, I do think you could probably be too intellectually humble as a scientist or researcher or philosopher or whatever when you're young.

[00:43:06] You know, you kind of do have to take shit to the end of the line.

[00:43:09] And you kind of do have to come in there with a false confidence.

[00:43:11] You know, I feel like I have more intellectual humility than I did as a young grad student, but partly that was good in that environment, in that context, just to launch me writing about something, you know?

[00:43:25] Because otherwise you're like, what the fuck am I going to say about free will that hasn't already been said?

[00:43:29] And like, why would I be right about this?

[00:43:31] You know?

[00:43:31] No, that's totally true.

[00:43:33] I think I've brought this up like multiple times recently, but Orson Welles, when he was being asked, like how at 25 years old, he could make basically like a movie that was considered masteries by anybody.

[00:43:45] He said it was the confidence of ignorance.

[00:43:48] It was just plain old confidence of ignorance.

[00:43:50] Like, I did not know that I could not do these things.

[00:43:53] And he's a great example of his strengths, you know, his just utter supreme confidence that he was like a master director and that was also a weakness because he never was able to figure out how to match that with like a studio that would trust him to deliver a project that was successful for them.

[00:44:15] So we should do like one day, maybe we'll talk about Orson Welles, but it's a pretty sad story about this genius who still was able to make a lot of really, really great movies.

[00:44:26] But that it's just the counter world where, you know, he could have been like Hitchcock or somebody and kind of worked it out.

[00:44:35] He ended up doing commercials for frozen peas.

[00:44:38] Yeah.

[00:44:38] And what was that wine that he used to do when we were kids?

[00:44:42] He was just like drunk.

[00:44:44] Yeah.

[00:44:44] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:44:45] Fat and drunk.

[00:44:46] Like Del Monk.

[00:44:47] No.

[00:44:48] Paul Masson.

[00:44:49] Paul Masson.

[00:44:50] Yeah.

[00:44:52] But, yeah.

[00:44:54] Can I just read this last thing that I also was like wanted to applaud?

[00:45:00] Intellectual humility then isn't a virtue because there are no intellectual virtues.

[00:45:04] There are traits that are sometimes conducive to knowledge and traits that are sometimes not.

[00:45:08] But there are no general rules about traits, about which traits are which.

[00:45:12] And so there is no way to classify for all times and temperaments our intellectual traits as good or bad.

[00:45:19] The search for intellectual virtues is the search for a rule book or recipe, a way to guarantee that we will find ourselves on the right side of truth.

[00:45:26] But when it comes to the intellectually good life, there are no such rule books or recipes.

[00:45:31] There is no method by which to guarantee against fake news or false confidence.

[00:45:36] Epistemological anxiety is as old as philosophy itself.

[00:45:39] It deserves a better rejoinder than the moralistic injunction to be humble.

[00:45:44] That's such a great closing paragraph.

[00:45:46] Yeah.

[00:45:46] Good job, Rachel Fraser.

[00:45:48] I couldn't agree more.

[00:45:50] One thing I thought we might talk about but we cannot is, you know, this was a real question around the time of COVID.

[00:45:58] You know, like what the intellectually humble thing to do was and certainly a lot of people were accusing your side of a lack of intellectual humility when it came to masks and the vaccine.

[00:46:12] We were the McClintocks of the world.

[00:46:17] But yeah, I don't want to rehash that.

[00:46:19] But like that might be one where it's still like you're right that it's not clear what the intellectually humble thing is.

[00:46:26] But when policy is at least being made, that is another element that you have to consider, which again is why you're not going to be able to figure out whether it's a virtue or not, even if you can pin down what it is.

[00:46:37] Yeah.

[00:46:37] The right answer, unfortunately, can't be found.

[00:46:40] And I take it this is the point of the last paragraph.

[00:46:42] You can't find the right answers by looking for the people you think are humble.

[00:46:47] Or arrogant.

[00:46:48] And more generally, we can't like say here are the traits you should cultivate so that you will be the most likely to acquire knowledge because it will just depend on the context and like also your other parts of your personality.

[00:47:06] If McClintock wasn't like this caustic, fuck all of you kind of person, then that probably wouldn't have been a good thing for her.

[00:47:13] Yeah, that's right.

[00:47:14] And that meshes with our experience, like at least my experiences.

[00:47:17] There are just different kinds of people.

[00:47:19] Like there are the kinds of people who really are like, fuck everybody else.

[00:47:23] I'm going to say this.

[00:47:24] And they like were not for that trait.

[00:47:26] They wouldn't have come up with their amazing views.

[00:47:28] And there are people who just seem like so humble and open.

[00:47:32] And they also came up with really great things.

[00:47:35] Like for every Messi, there's a Ronaldo, I guess is what I'm saying.

[00:47:38] And it's like unclear whether or not one is the better way of being.

[00:47:42] Yeah, it really will depend on, you know, your other abilities and your other and the context that you're in.

[00:47:49] All right.

[00:47:49] We have the exact right view of this paper and this issue.

[00:47:54] It's crazy that we do.

[00:47:56] You know, you might think it's a coincidence, but it's not.

[00:47:58] It's our skill that allows us to home in.

[00:47:59] And if you disagree, you're a dumb hillbilly fuck.

[00:48:05] And you shouldn't be allowed to vote anymore.

[00:48:09] All right.

[00:48:10] We'll be right back to talk about Deadwood and give out our Ambies Awards.

[00:48:18] Ambies.

[00:49:19] Welcome back to Very Bad Wizards.

[00:49:21] This is the time of the show where we like to take a moment to thank everybody for all their support.

[00:49:26] Tamler and I are doing it together this time.

[00:49:27] We really, really love hearing from you.

[00:49:30] If you want to get a hold of us, you can email us verybadwizards at gmail.com.

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[00:49:56] Maybe even leave us a review as like our holiday gift or Hanukkah surprise.

[00:50:01] Give us a five star with some nice words.

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[00:50:05] You can listen to us on Spotify and subscribe to us, and you can even leave comments there.

[00:50:11] Oh, yeah.

[00:50:12] I never see those.

[00:50:12] I need to look at those.

[00:50:14] Are they good?

[00:50:14] Yeah.

[00:50:15] I think I only like recently activated them so that they were actually being posted.

[00:50:19] So, yeah.

[00:50:20] I think it's official.

[00:50:21] Oh, and follow me on Letterboxd.

[00:50:23] I've lately been rating, giving brief reviews and ratings to the movies I've been watching.

[00:50:29] So, yeah.

[00:50:30] Oh, nice.

[00:50:31] That's a good social media thing, you know?

[00:50:34] And it doesn't matter.

[00:50:35] Yeah.

[00:50:35] It's like a healthy movie.

[00:50:35] It doesn't matter if Jesse Single is on it.

[00:50:37] Like, nobody gives a shit.

[00:50:39] You know?

[00:50:39] That's-

[00:50:39] Wait, you follow him on Letterboxd?

[00:50:41] No, I'm saying I don't know if he is.

[00:50:42] I'm just-

[00:50:43] Yeah.

[00:50:43] I'm kidding.

[00:50:44] Am I canceled?

[00:50:45] No.

[00:50:46] He gave Tangerine a really bad review.

[00:50:55] Unfollow that because I love that movie.

[00:50:57] So, yeah.

[00:50:59] So, then we have for, of course, if you want to support us in more tangible ways, you can

[00:51:04] buy some swag.

[00:51:06] That doesn't actually always support us.

[00:51:08] That actually kind of takes away money from us.

[00:51:11] Sort of evens out.

[00:51:12] So, I guess the biggest way you can support us where we don't actually lose money per mug

[00:51:20] is if you go to our Patreon page and become one of our beloved patrons.

[00:51:27] We just put up the finalists for all the suggestions that all of our patrons gave us for our listener-selected episode.

[00:51:35] Like I said, it's looking like Joseph Campbell might take this, but it's not over yet.

[00:51:40] I just put up the poll yesterday, I think.

[00:51:43] And, yeah.

[00:51:45] We have a couple changes that we've been mentioning.

[00:51:48] You want to talk about them together?

[00:51:50] The main one being that they are switching to a monthly subscription on Patreon for all.

[00:51:58] So, we can't do this episode-by-episode thing, which is in itself not a big deal because we

[00:52:04] always do two episodes a month.

[00:52:05] And so, it's always just double that per month.

[00:52:07] Very predictable.

[00:52:08] Yes.

[00:52:08] So, now, though, it'll be even more predictable because you'll just pay by the month.

[00:52:13] So, if you're in the $5 per episode, you'll be just paying $10 a month.

[00:52:18] $10, you'll be paying $20 a month, as you have been all along.

[00:52:22] The one change that we're going to make that's substantive is we're having a $5 tier.

[00:52:27] So, the people who are the $2 and up per episode, that's just now going to be our base tier,

[00:52:32] and it's just $5 a month.

[00:52:33] Yes.

[00:52:34] Right.

[00:52:34] Are we keeping...

[00:52:35] No, we'll keep the $2 for...

[00:52:38] Or are we not?

[00:52:38] Are we doing away with that?

[00:52:39] For your beats?

[00:52:40] We're changing everybody in the...

[00:52:41] For your beats?

[00:52:42] Well, okay.

[00:52:42] Let's just not get into that.

[00:52:44] At that new $5 and up, which I think won't take effect until February at the earliest.

[00:52:51] So, if you're...

[00:52:52] Right now, it'll just be $4 as you've been paying.

[00:52:55] So, that's...

[00:52:56] You get all of our bonus episode, all of the volumes of Dave's beats.

[00:52:59] And, going forward, you will have access to our entire back catalog, not just of bonus episodes,

[00:53:07] but of main episodes, because...

[00:53:09] Ad-free back.

[00:53:10] Ad-free back catalog.

[00:53:13] Soon, that will be only for our patrons, and non-patrons will still get the last two to four years of episodes.

[00:53:23] If it's 100, then it'll be...

[00:53:25] It'll never be less than 50.

[00:53:27] We'll probably just start it at 100.

[00:53:29] So, you will still have the most recent 100 episodes, but if you want the back catalog after that,

[00:53:34] you will have to become a patron of ours.

[00:53:38] We, of course, are not doing ads, and this is one way we hope to at least get some of that money back.

[00:53:46] That BetterHelp money.

[00:53:47] Yeah, and we love our patrons.

[00:53:49] I think it's a really great community.

[00:53:51] We love answering the questions and the AUAs.

[00:53:54] And we'd like to build that and make it thrive even more, offer more things.

[00:54:00] So, stay tuned.

[00:54:02] Yeah.

[00:54:03] And, as always, we're looking for suggestions for things to do for, like, the summer months especially.

[00:54:09] Yeah.

[00:54:10] So, I think we got plenty.

[00:54:11] We got a lot.

[00:54:11] But we're always open to it.

[00:54:14] Yeah.

[00:54:15] And happy holidays to all very Bad Wizards listeners and your families.

[00:54:20] And anything else to say?

[00:54:24] No, just thank you.

[00:54:25] Gratitude.

[00:54:26] So much gratitude.

[00:54:27] Season of gratitude.

[00:54:28] So much gratitude for this big community that we've been a part of.

[00:54:35] Next time, 300th episode.

[00:54:39] 300th episode.

[00:54:40] Unbelievable.

[00:54:40] Jesus Christ.

[00:54:41] All right.

[00:54:42] Let's get to the Ambys.

[00:54:44] To the final episode of The Ambulators.

[00:54:51] The Ambulators.

[00:54:53] So, normally, David does that kind of low, The Ambulators.

[00:54:59] And then goes back to speaking in his normal voice, but not today.

[00:55:04] This is what we're getting.

[00:55:06] This is it.

[00:55:09] David's a little sick, but he is powering through.

[00:55:11] This is the final episode.

[00:55:13] This is The Ambys.

[00:55:16] The Ambys.

[00:55:17] We do insert award music here.

[00:55:29] We have 11 categories.

[00:55:34] Some highlights.

[00:55:35] Best side character.

[00:55:37] Best character.

[00:55:38] Best scene.

[00:55:38] Best use of profanity.

[00:55:40] Best insult or slur.

[00:55:41] Best anti-Semitic slur.

[00:55:43] Best scene.

[00:55:44] Best quote.

[00:55:45] Best episode.

[00:55:46] Best character other than Al.

[00:55:48] And, you know, we may just come up with some new categories as we go.

[00:55:52] As we go along.

[00:55:53] Like, best turn of phrase was definitely something I wish we had thought of, you know?

[00:55:58] Yeah.

[00:55:58] Best EB quote alone.

[00:56:00] Best EB quote.

[00:56:01] Like, I'm mad at us for not doing that.

[00:56:03] Anything to do with language.

[00:56:05] Yeah.

[00:56:05] It's just an embarrassment of riches.

[00:56:07] Mm-hmm.

[00:56:08] So, this was a really fun project.

[00:56:12] I can't believe it's done.

[00:56:13] I know.

[00:56:13] And we needed this for ourselves, too.

[00:56:16] We needed, like, a capstone episode to, like, make sense of it all.

[00:56:21] Absolutely.

[00:56:22] Make sense of it and just celebrate it, you know?

[00:56:24] Because we were pretty committed to going pretty closely, scene by scene within the episodes.

[00:56:32] And now we can just celebrate.

[00:56:34] Yeah.

[00:56:35] Can I ask you this broad question?

[00:56:37] Yeah.

[00:56:37] It sounds kind of corny, but what does the show mean to you at this point?

[00:56:41] That's a great question.

[00:56:42] What does it mean to me?

[00:56:44] Yeah.

[00:56:44] Yeah.

[00:56:44] There always has been.

[00:56:46] I've probably seen it, except for the third season, which I've only seen twice.

[00:56:49] I've probably seen, like, the other two, like, at least four times.

[00:56:52] There is always a kind of warmth that I felt watching the show.

[00:56:57] To have that feeling, you know, when confronted with this incredible work of art and this writing

[00:57:03] that could only be done by a genius.

[00:57:06] And, yeah, there was a real emotional depth to the show in a way that, like, you know,

[00:57:12] maybe The Wire, as great as it is, and as much as you liked to hang out with those characters,

[00:57:18] for sure, like, there wasn't that feeling that, I don't know, I always felt like a glow

[00:57:22] watching Deadwood.

[00:57:24] What about you?

[00:57:24] No, totally.

[00:57:25] I mean, I was going to say that, almost use the same exact words about the warmth.

[00:57:29] And, like, I like your comparison to The Wire.

[00:57:31] So, like, if I'm comparing it to The Wire or The Sopranos, you know, those are different,

[00:57:36] they're different beasts.

[00:57:37] And The Wire feels more like sociology to me, where there's more of an impersonal forces

[00:57:43] at work.

[00:57:44] Sopranos feels like a real in-depth character study of Tony and a very Freudian analysis of

[00:57:50] him.

[00:57:51] This is, it's the theme that we always come back to here, is the community.

[00:57:55] Yeah.

[00:57:56] And the growing of the community from nothing, from Wild West, to a group of people who value

[00:58:02] each other, who care for each other, who look out for each other, and whose individual characters

[00:58:06] have grown because of that.

[00:58:08] Yeah.

[00:58:08] Yeah.

[00:58:08] And like we often said, especially early on, it's a body, you know, and it's a body

[00:58:13] that's growing and maturing, you know, and it's under a lot of stress and it gets sick

[00:58:19] and it gets attacked and it keeps bouncing back.

[00:58:24] What's your favorite thing about the show, would you say?

[00:58:27] Oh God, that might depend on what day you ask me, but the richness of the language I think

[00:58:33] has to be, it's a language that is beautiful, descriptive, and yet not pretentious. Like,

[00:58:40] cause these are putting those amazing turns of phrases in characters that are just like

[00:58:45] ruffians, gangsters, you know, prostitutes takes whatever uppityness out of them and makes

[00:58:51] us just appreciate the poetry of it. I don't know. I don't think there's anything like it.

[00:58:56] I don't think there's anything remotely like it in that way. You know, I think a long time

[00:59:01] ago, maybe for like iTunes or something, when you first were like signing us up and you had

[00:59:07] to give a description of the show and you said that we had a marked inability to distinguish

[00:59:12] the sacred from the profane. I think that's true of us. And I think that's very true of

[00:59:18] Deadwood, you know, like the sacred and the profane, like they, they would come up in the

[00:59:24] same sentence. Yeah. The head of the snake and the tail of the snake touching.

[00:59:27] Yes. Yep. Exactly. You know, like denial of death, it reminded you that you are a creature

[00:59:34] and a beast and that you were going to die and you were going to suffer and you were going to roll

[00:59:40] around in the mud and eat shit. But it also had these yearnings for a kind of spiritual connection

[00:59:48] between people that, you know, something like the connection between Mr. Wu and Al. It's not

[00:59:54] supernatural, but it's spiritual. Yeah. It's just that humanity can show its best under conditions

[01:00:01] like that. And, you know, Al, the character Alice Wearingen and the performance by Ian McShane,

[01:00:07] I just don't think there is like, you can't be topped. It was so good and so interesting.

[01:00:12] And I just think that's the mountain that people can try to climb, but you can't get higher than it.

[01:00:19] Like it's just kind of worked perfectly. I don't think we ever even thought to criticize

[01:00:24] Ian McShane's performance on any, anything. He could do no wrong on the show.

[01:00:29] Yeah. Like he, he embodied that character. And I think that's true for all of them, you know,

[01:00:34] virtually like you can't imagine Jane not being played by Robin Weigert, you know, like there's no

[01:00:39] way. Like that has to be Jane. Trixie is Paula Malcolmson. Yeah. You cannot imagine them being

[01:00:46] different. Like EB, if anybody else tried to play EB and some, you know, like remake of this,

[01:00:52] I would probably like break my new TV, which I love more than anything and any person in the world.

[01:01:00] Agreed. Ellsworth, Jim Beaver. Yeah. Great. Brad, Brad. Yeah.

[01:01:04] Yeah. Brad Durow fez the doc. Yeah. Okay. So let's just dive in. All right. So our first category

[01:01:13] is best side character. This was a show that just had so many beloved core characters, but then also

[01:01:20] a bunch of awesome side characters. We didn't really talk about how we were defining this.

[01:01:26] No, we're going to have to do it as we go. And I don't think we said this, but we're going to pick

[01:01:30] a winner through consensus, right? Yes, that's right. We each came with between three and five

[01:01:35] nominees, depending on the category, which was very hard to do. So hard. I'm looking at my list now

[01:01:42] and can't believe who I omitted. I know. Can I go with my first one? Because I think this one takes

[01:01:47] a discussion about whether he's a side character or not. Okay. Is Ellsworth a side character?

[01:01:51] I consider him a main character. Okay. Here's how I defined side character. Either they were,

[01:01:59] maybe they would pop up for like a quick scene that they weren't central, but they weren't one of the

[01:02:04] central people that the narrative revolved around or they were, but then they were gone after a few

[01:02:10] episodes or they would take breaks, you know, like between times we'd see them. That's how I defined it.

[01:02:16] Yeah. Okay. So should I just give you my list and you give me your list?

[01:02:20] Yeah. Let's do it like that. Yeah. Okay. I think I have a clear favorite in this list,

[01:02:25] but I feel the need to mention these others. I love Silas. I think Titus Welliver for some reason,

[01:02:32] just, I like that guy. We're watching Bosch now. Oh, you are? Yeah. Yeah. He's good. No,

[01:02:39] Deadwood, but yeah. Yeah. He's cooler in Deadwood for some reason. Yeah. He's cool. I think they could

[01:02:44] have done more with them. Like when the stories were more about him and Dan and they're at that

[01:02:50] rivalry, it was actually really nice. Yeah. It was. Yeah. Um, Eddie, Ricky Jay, um, who I love,

[01:02:57] I think that just cause I have a soft spot for Ricky Jay. Yeah. Elsewhere is off the board. So my true

[01:03:02] favorite, the titty liquor, I had to put the titty liquor in there. He brings it to the show. And I think

[01:03:10] my, my, my true pick here, not to jump the gun, but woo. Okay. Yeah. All right. Woo is our only

[01:03:19] overlap. Okay. Good. Interestingly, but I think you'll like some of my other ones. Commissioner Jerry,

[01:03:26] probably not going to win, but he's great. Like I just, I really love, and he has one of the best

[01:03:30] lines in the show. I didn't make my list of quotes, but like, you don't fuck the future. The future

[01:03:36] fucks you while he's in the cage, you know? Yeah. The balls, the balls to talk shit.

[01:03:43] Like he was both craven and somehow like brave guy being such a kind of entitled asshole.

[01:03:51] Right. Uh, the general surprise. He didn't make your list. Like his smile would light up. Yeah.

[01:03:57] You're right. I, you know, I thought of him and then I forgot to put him on the list. Yeah. The

[01:04:00] general would have made my list. In fact, I'll take Ellsworth off cause I have to put the general

[01:04:05] on my list. Okay. I have Jewel on there. Always fun. You know, you're also ableist. Yeah.

[01:04:14] Uh, you're anti Pinkerton cause you don't have miss is ring has on the list. Uh, but, uh, she

[01:04:22] was great. Like she, when she was going toe to toe with Al, like there was not another person

[01:04:27] who could do that until Hearst. And like, I would prefer miss is ring has and do it. And

[01:04:33] finally again, surprised. He didn't make your list. Maybe you think of him as a main character,

[01:04:39] but Richardson. No, I did. Yeah. I don't think of him as major. He didn't, he didn't make

[01:04:45] my list. He just didn't have enough lines. Maybe. I like you. Thank you. Richardson.

[01:04:59] You're hurting. Well, I guess who didn't know that he, he was a great foil for EB. He was a,

[01:05:07] like, you know, they had a whole Shakespearean fool thing going on. Yeah. He was necessary

[01:05:12] after a while for you. Yeah. Um, and then, yeah. And then he could just became kind of

[01:05:16] clever and you never knew exactly to what extent his idiocy was kind of an act by the

[01:05:22] end. All right. So, uh, overlap. We have the general and woo. Did you feel strongly about

[01:05:28] your, or your list? Anyone on your list was Richardson your top? I mean, Richardson might've

[01:05:32] been my top, but I would have, but it was very close between him and woo and the general.

[01:05:37] I think the general was just like the world and the town and all the like forces were so

[01:05:43] against him and he just couldn't, he didn't let that get him down. Like he had one of the

[01:05:48] best attitudes of life. And then just reading that this guy was actually kind of like a real

[01:05:52] guy that people, uh, and that's how, how he called himself. And, uh, so I really like

[01:05:58] him, but part of, part of me thinks woo is the right choice. Cause there's so many meaningful

[01:06:03] things that happen with woo. That's why I'm, I'm drawn to woo a bit more because woo brings

[01:06:08] out something in the other characters. Yeah. And Al specifically. Yeah. All right. So the

[01:06:15] first Ambie goes to Mr. Woo played by Keon Young. Keon Young. So that's the first Ambie huge deal

[01:06:32] for Keon Young and Mr. Woo. I feel like we should mail him something. Yeah. Definitely. Uh,

[01:06:39] we'll get our staff. Okay. We're jumping to best scene, right? Yeah. This is a big one.

[01:06:48] This is a big one, big one. And also just one where I like, is this the three best scenes

[01:06:54] that I think are real? I can, I have no idea. All right. Do you want me to go? Let's do these

[01:07:01] one by one. Maybe. Okay. Um, I'll start with my number three, the fight. Yeah. That is my number

[01:07:09] three. Okay. I figured we might both have that. Yeah. Just an incredible depiction of a violent

[01:07:15] encounter. Um, yeah. Just will never leave my mind. Yeah. It's so raw and it's so unromanticized

[01:07:24] and there's a lot of drama. Like there's a lot like twists and turns within it and back

[01:07:30] and forth. And then, you know, Hearst not saying that Turner could kill Dan, just costing

[01:07:37] Turner.

[01:07:39] Ah, man. I remember watching it for the first time thinking, shit, Dan's going to die. Like

[01:07:43] I was like, can't believe they're killing Dan. And then Dan's, you know, the, the fallout

[01:07:47] with Dan being clearly fucked up about it for days still in his greased up, you know,

[01:07:54] like just shitty clothes and greased up body. And, and really Al being the only one to fully

[01:07:59] understand that because you know, Dan has like slit people's throats and he's, but this was

[01:08:04] something different. This was more primal, you know? Yeah. And Al was the one who understood

[01:08:10] that and also just left him alone. Cause nobody can like, you're either going to come to terms

[01:08:14] with it or you're not going to. And that's something he had to do on his own. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:08:19] Okay. So that was both of our number threes. Okay. Yeah. You want to go to number two?

[01:08:23] Yes. My number two is EB scrubbing the floor and delivering his soliloquy.

[01:08:33] I'll throw Farnham a token fee. Why should I reward EB with some small fractional participation

[01:08:41] in the claim or let him even lay by a little security and source of continuing income.

[01:08:47] For his declining years, what's he ever done for me? Except let me terrify him of a goddamn

[01:08:56] day of his life till the idea of bowel regularity is a full on fucking hope. Not to mention ordering

[01:09:13] a man killed in one of EB's rooms. So every fucking free moment of his life, EB has to spend scrubbing

[01:09:24] the blood stains off the goddamn floor to keep from heaven to lower his rates.

[01:09:38] That delivery, that whole thing by EB as he's scrubbing the floor, as he's sweating, his hair

[01:09:54] is in his face. He's just truly grappling with his position in the camp, his worth as a human.

[01:10:03] What is he doing? It's just as a standalone. You think if I were ever an actor and I had to

[01:10:09] choose a monologue to deliver, I might consider that one. I think it's EB's finest single performance.

[01:10:17] Yeah. It's a great example of a character needing to talk to themselves, but he has nothing to talk to,

[01:10:25] really. He has the floor. Even Al will have the chief's head or something. That's what's so important

[01:10:33] about Richardson later is that he has this sounding board, but that's, I'm pretty sure that's before

[01:10:38] Richardson comes on the scene.

[01:10:40] Yeah, I think so too.

[01:10:41] That's it.

[01:10:41] Yeah.

[01:10:42] And you know, he says the whole thing from Al's perspective. He's just being Al, you know, and

[01:10:47] he says, what's talking about EB? What's he ever done for me? Except let me terrify him every goddamn day

[01:10:54] of his life till the idea of bowel regularity is a full on fucking hope. And the delivery of that line

[01:11:00] gets weaker as he says the sentence. It's so incredible.

[01:11:03] That's a great one. It was definitely one that I considered. So the one that I had to put on,

[01:11:12] like the one that I remember, like making me cry the first time I saw it and every subsequent time

[01:11:19] I saw it, it's when the Reverend in, uh, this is in the episode, Mr. Wu. So this is the 10th episode

[01:11:26] of season one. He's already losing his mind. He's, you know, he's going to Al's bar and Al can't

[01:11:32] have him there. And then he just stops by the hardware store. Yeah.

[01:11:38] Reverend Smith.

[01:11:40] Evening, sir.

[01:11:46] Evening.

[01:11:47] Reverend.

[01:11:47] Reverend. I watched goods in the tent this, uh, this structure replaced while

[01:11:56] Messrs. Bullock and Starr first took in the camp.

[01:12:02] You sure did.

[01:12:04] What can we do for you, Reverend?

[01:12:10] I'm in a quandary, gentlemen. Are you Messrs. Bullock and Starr?

[01:12:19] In the flesh.

[01:12:28] You are the absolute images of them, gentlemen.

[01:12:31] But what makes me afraid is I do not recognize you as my friends.

[01:12:36] And naturally, I am afraid.

[01:12:39] What are you afraid of, sir?

[01:12:41] I don't know what's happening to me.

[01:12:44] And I'm afraid if you are devils.

[01:12:46] Which, which I don't believe you are because you are the kindest men of, of all in the camp

[01:12:52] to me. But if you were devils, I suppose that, that would be the, the type of shape you

[01:12:57] would take. And, and if you are not devils, I, then I am, I am simply losing my mind.

[01:13:08] And with my other ailments, I am concerned and afraid.

[01:13:18] All right, Reverend. We're the people you met the night you watched our goods.

[01:13:23] I'm from Etobicoke, Ontario.

[01:13:26] I'm from Vienna, Austria.

[01:13:33] Wonderful.

[01:13:35] You're here with friends.

[01:13:36] Yes. Yes.

[01:13:40] Yes, I feel that now.

[01:13:42] And I have various elements of which we all suffer.

[01:13:47] And next morning often finds us feeling better.

[01:13:51] Yes.

[01:13:53] In any case, part of God's plan.

[01:13:56] May we walk you back to your tent, sir?

[01:14:03] An evening stroll with friends.

[01:14:06] I would so enjoy that.

[01:14:08] Let's go then.

[01:14:12] This is a great Saul thing.

[01:14:14] Kind of just gets the sense, okay, I have to be here for him.

[01:14:17] I have to be available for him.

[01:14:19] And then Seth says, you're here with friends.

[01:14:22] And then, you know, the final thing, can we walk you back to your tent?

[01:14:25] And the Reverend says, and he's smiling and he feels a little relief for the first time.

[01:14:30] He says, an evening stroll with friends.

[01:14:32] I would so enjoy that.

[01:14:34] It's just, it's so beautiful.

[01:14:36] I think friendship is such a big theme of the first season, especially.

[01:14:39] And it was just like, to give him this moment of warmth and grace in an otherwise kind of terrifying time for him and painful was just like, it's one of the Milch's best things that he did.

[01:14:53] Amazing scene.

[01:14:54] Makes me cry every time too.

[01:14:55] Yep.

[01:14:55] I thought of it too.

[01:14:58] Etobico, Ontario.

[01:14:59] Yeah.

[01:15:00] All right.

[01:15:00] What's your last one?

[01:15:01] My last one is on that same theme.

[01:15:03] I was wondering whether this would be considered a scene, but it's the end of season one, episode 12.

[01:15:10] And it's when Al finally brings some mercy to the Reverend.

[01:15:14] And we get, we get a back and forth of the doc praying on his knees, you know, a doc who's lost his faith, but just screaming out like the, the horrors that he saw.

[01:15:25] And conceivable use of like, uh, is his suffering to you, you know, like, and then he just starts saying, mommy, mommy, my legs, you know?

[01:15:35] Yeah.

[01:15:35] Cause he's remembering the war and his work in the war.

[01:15:39] Yeah.

[01:15:39] Yeah.

[01:15:40] And then meanwhile, Al is doing what needs to be done and it captures Al so well by the end of this season, we've seen Al be a terrible person.

[01:15:51] And then we see that he also has the strength to be a vessel of good that nobody else has the strength for.

[01:15:59] He'll get his hands dirty for the, out of true compassion.

[01:16:02] Yeah.

[01:16:03] As we will see from Al.

[01:16:05] Yeah.

[01:16:05] He says like, all right, brother.

[01:16:08] When he finally like suffocates him and he dies, like you can relax essentially.

[01:16:17] Go now, brother.

[01:16:22] And he also reminds him of his brother who had seizures.

[01:16:26] Apparently like we don't get the full story of that, but it's clear from what Al says that he had that.

[01:16:32] And it's just, yeah, it's a beautiful scene.

[01:16:34] And the doc's performance there, that's Brad Dourif.

[01:16:40] My last one is actually a good kind of lead in to what you're talking about.

[01:16:44] And it's from the episode right before that episode.

[01:16:47] We actually, like the last three have been 10, 12, 11, the first season.

[01:16:52] The first season is, that was one of the things looking back at this to try to come up with nominees is, yeah, the first season was just incredible.

[01:16:59] So full of it, yeah.

[01:17:00] Yeah, this is from Jules Boot Was Made For Walking.

[01:17:04] And it's the end.

[01:17:06] It's one of his blowjob monologues.

[01:17:09] But this time, like, we're finding out about his past.

[01:17:13] And it's a really hard scene to watch because, you know, he has Dolly there and the story he tells and how he's treating Dolly.

[01:17:22] But I really think it's up there with his best acting on the show, which I think puts it up.

[01:17:28] Yeah, it might be the best acted scene ever on TV.

[01:17:30] It's up there anyway.

[01:17:32] But like this monologue that he gives.

[01:17:36] Now I see what the fuck's in front of me and I don't pretend it's something else.

[01:17:41] I was fucking her and now I'm going to fuck you if you don't piss me off or open your yap at the wrong fucking time.

[01:17:50] The only time you're supposed to open your yap is so I can put my fucking prick in it.

[01:17:56] Otherwise you shut the fuck up.

[01:17:58] Now hold on to that.

[01:18:01] Point is, this minister's got to fucking die.

[01:18:06] I mean, that's the fucking point.

[01:18:09] He's going to die sooner or later.

[01:18:11] I mean, he's making a fucking jerk of himself.

[01:18:14] I mean, why go on with that?

[01:18:16] Who's going to benefit from that, huh?

[01:18:20] You just got to kill it and put an end to it.

[01:18:24] You don't linger on about it.

[01:18:25] You don't fucking go around weeping about it.

[01:18:28] And you don't behave like a kid with a sore fucking thumb.

[01:18:31] You know, a little sucking it.

[01:18:32] Now, my poor fucking thumb.

[01:18:35] I mean, you got to behave like a grown fucking man.

[01:18:40] You got to shut the fuck up.

[01:18:42] Don't be sorry.

[01:18:43] Don't look fucking back because, believe me, no one gives a fuck.

[01:18:47] You understand?

[01:18:48] Yeah.

[01:18:49] Shut the fuck up, huh?

[01:18:52] Give me that.

[01:18:54] Did you know the orphanage part of the building you lived in,

[01:18:57] behind it she ran a whorehouse, huh?

[01:19:02] Oh, so you knew, so...

[01:19:05] So what are you fucking looking at, huh?

[01:19:08] God.

[01:19:09] Now I'll tell you something you don't know.

[01:19:16] Before she ran the girls' orphanage,

[01:19:21] fat Mrs. fucking Anderson ran the boys' orphanage

[01:19:25] on fucking Euclid Avenue.

[01:19:27] As I'd see her fat ass waddling out the boys' dormitory

[01:19:31] at five o'clock in the fucking morning,

[01:19:33] every fucking morning,

[01:19:34] after she blew a stupid fucking cowbell

[01:19:37] and woke us all the fuck up,

[01:19:38] my fucking mother dropped me the fuck off there

[01:19:41] with $7.60-some-odd fucking cents

[01:19:43] on the way to sucking cock in Georgia.

[01:19:49] So it starts out, and he says,

[01:19:51] people don't see what's in front of them.

[01:19:54] They can't, like, just face it

[01:19:56] without lying to themselves.

[01:19:57] But he's not like that.

[01:19:59] The main thing at first here

[01:20:01] is that the reverend has to die.

[01:20:04] Like, he's like, he sees that,

[01:20:05] and it's bugging him that nobody's even stepping up

[01:20:08] to admit to themselves that he has to die,

[01:20:12] like, out of compassion for him.

[01:20:14] And then it transitions to the orphanage

[01:20:18] where he purchased Dolly, apparently,

[01:20:22] but also where he was when he was there

[01:20:25] 30 years earlier because his mother abandoned him there.

[01:20:29] And he was clearly abused there.

[01:20:30] We don't really find out much more than that,

[01:20:33] but he's so good, he gets so angry.

[01:20:35] And then after he finishes, he says to her,

[01:20:38] Okay, go ahead and spit it out.

[01:20:40] You don't need to swallow.

[01:20:42] Spit it out.

[01:20:45] It was like, I just gave you my hate.

[01:20:49] I don't, like, spit it out.

[01:20:50] Don't swallow it.

[01:20:51] You know, like, I just gave you my hate,

[01:20:53] my, like, this little dark thing inside of me

[01:20:56] I gave to you.

[01:20:57] So it's like, almost a no,

[01:20:59] even though I can't support how he treats Dolly

[01:21:03] in that scene,

[01:21:04] like, he has enough presence of mind at the end

[01:21:07] to say, you know,

[01:21:09] I don't want, like, that going into you.

[01:21:11] Yeah.

[01:21:12] Incredible scene.

[01:21:13] I'll admit the reason it probably didn't make my list

[01:21:16] is because of the discomfort of Dolly.

[01:21:19] You know, just, like, it hurts to watch.

[01:21:23] But I completely agree with you

[01:21:25] that this is an incredible, incredible scene.

[01:21:29] This was the Al, you know,

[01:21:31] the complexity of that character.

[01:21:33] Like you said, he could do the worst things

[01:21:35] and he could do the best things.

[01:21:36] And you get the sense,

[01:21:37] when he went and got Dolly,

[01:21:39] it wasn't because she was going to be the hottest.

[01:21:42] Like, he probably wanted to save her from that place,

[01:21:45] from that woman,

[01:21:46] the same woman that, you know,

[01:21:47] the same thing with Jewel.

[01:21:49] And that's why some people are devoted to him,

[01:21:51] probably even Dolly,

[01:21:52] although we don't think we ever find out the details there.

[01:21:55] But it is kind of consonant with his character

[01:21:58] that, you know,

[01:21:58] he probably took her out of that

[01:22:00] and then treated her like shit.

[01:22:02] And, you know,

[01:22:03] he killed somebody there.

[01:22:04] Yeah.

[01:22:05] 12 hours before he picked up Dolly.

[01:22:07] Right.

[01:22:07] So I don't know if we're supposed to believe

[01:22:09] that he killed the head of the whorehouse.

[01:22:13] Yeah, maybe.

[01:22:14] No, because he paid her, he said,

[01:22:15] in the long run.

[01:22:16] So maybe, yeah, who knows.

[01:22:18] Well, I'm glad at least that we have this theme

[01:22:21] where my pick is Al doing the thing that needs to be done

[01:22:26] and your pick is Al telling us

[01:22:29] where his strength comes from

[01:22:31] and where his weakness comes from.

[01:22:32] So, yeah.

[01:22:33] Yeah.

[01:22:34] I'm good with this one.

[01:22:36] You want to go with this one?

[01:22:37] Sure.

[01:22:37] Yeah.

[01:22:38] All right.

[01:22:39] And it's a good tribute to Ian McShane.

[01:22:41] Yeah.

[01:22:41] So the ambi for best scene

[01:22:44] goes to

[01:22:50] Ian McShane

[01:22:51] and the actress who plays Dolly.

[01:22:54] Al getting head.

[01:22:55] Al getting head.

[01:22:57] Well, that wouldn't narrow it down.

[01:23:00] That's true.

[01:23:01] All right.

[01:23:02] Best use of profanity?

[01:23:04] Yeah.

[01:23:04] Okay.

[01:23:05] This was tough

[01:23:06] because, like,

[01:23:07] this is every episode

[01:23:09] you could pick, like, ten.

[01:23:10] I know.

[01:23:11] Okay.

[01:23:12] So there's some repeated ones.

[01:23:14] So my first pick is

[01:23:15] almost every time Wu says Kaksaka.

[01:23:18] I think Wu's saying Kaksaka

[01:23:20] is just never going to leave my brain.

[01:23:23] San Francisco.

[01:23:24] San Francisco.

[01:23:25] What?

[01:23:26] Kaksaka.

[01:23:27] Yeah.

[01:23:30] Yeah.

[01:23:31] Very good.

[01:23:32] Yeah.

[01:23:32] This was very hard to do

[01:23:34] because

[01:23:34] it was hard to not

[01:23:36] fold it into

[01:23:38] like best quotes.

[01:23:39] Insults or quotes.

[01:23:40] Yeah.

[01:23:41] Turn of phrase.

[01:23:42] Like, if it was turn of phrase,

[01:23:44] I might have done

[01:23:46] the comes true author.

[01:23:48] Yeah.

[01:23:51] Maybe that would come back.

[01:23:52] All right.

[01:23:53] So here's the best use of profanity.

[01:23:54] My first one.

[01:23:55] Charlie

[01:23:56] talking to Walcott

[01:23:57] because he hates him.

[01:23:59] He thinks he's

[01:24:00] treated Joni badly.

[01:24:01] Oh, I see you've got

[01:24:02] your big fucking knife there

[01:24:04] and hid somewhere on your person.

[01:24:05] You probably got some

[01:24:06] pussified shooting instrument.

[01:24:08] But I am good at first impressions

[01:24:10] and you are a fucking cunt.

[01:24:12] And I doubt you've fought many men.

[01:24:15] Just like Charlie

[01:24:16] when he was on a roll could.

[01:24:18] Like, some pussified shooting instrument,

[01:24:20] which he did in fact,

[01:24:22] I think, have.

[01:24:23] Yeah.

[01:24:23] Like, is just beautiful.

[01:24:25] Yeah.

[01:24:26] It was on my list.

[01:24:27] It was?

[01:24:27] That's on your list?

[01:24:28] That's hilarious.

[01:24:29] The pussified shooting instrument.

[01:24:31] It's so great.

[01:24:33] My next one,

[01:24:34] and I have four here,

[01:24:35] so I'll just put this one out there

[01:24:37] because it's also a repeated one

[01:24:39] every time.

[01:24:40] Maybe three times

[01:24:41] that Al refers to Trixie

[01:24:43] as loopy fucking cunt.

[01:24:44] Yeah.

[01:24:45] Because each time

[01:24:45] it means something else.

[01:24:47] Yeah.

[01:24:47] It's something different.

[01:24:48] A hundred percent.

[01:24:49] Yeah.

[01:24:50] Sometimes it's affectionate.

[01:24:51] Sometimes it's annoyed.

[01:24:53] It's annoyed.

[01:24:54] It's angry at her

[01:24:55] for being not

[01:24:56] looking out for herself.

[01:24:58] Yeah.

[01:24:58] Yeah.

[01:24:59] Yeah.

[01:25:00] Loopy fucking cunt.

[01:25:01] I have,

[01:25:03] as my second one,

[01:25:05] this is just a great,

[01:25:06] like,

[01:25:07] Jane-EB interaction

[01:25:09] from season one.

[01:25:11] EB comes back.

[01:25:12] I'm sorry,

[01:25:13] Jane comes back.

[01:25:14] She had been staying at the inn,

[01:25:15] but she left,

[01:25:17] and EB doesn't want her kind in there.

[01:25:20] She's too dirty

[01:25:21] for his fancy inn.

[01:25:25] I'm back.

[01:25:26] Your room has been re-rented.

[01:25:28] Fuck you,

[01:25:29] and fuck the rooms you wrecked.

[01:25:30] I'm calling on the widow

[01:25:32] and the little one in her care.

[01:25:33] And if I was you,

[01:25:34] or any cocksucker with you,

[01:25:36] I wouldn't try to stop me.

[01:25:37] Be brief.

[01:25:38] Be fucked.

[01:25:43] It's great.

[01:25:43] That's, yeah.

[01:25:44] That's a favorite.

[01:25:46] What do you got?

[01:25:48] Those that doubt me

[01:25:49] suck cock by choice.

[01:25:50] Yeah, I have this

[01:25:53] in a different category,

[01:25:55] but, like,

[01:25:56] it's totally good here.

[01:25:57] Yeah.

[01:25:58] Also the line before that.

[01:26:01] My bicycle,

[01:26:03] master's boardwalk

[01:26:04] and quagmire

[01:26:05] with a plum.

[01:26:07] Those that doubt me

[01:26:08] suck cock by choice.

[01:26:11] You know what?

[01:26:12] It does belong

[01:26:14] in best use of profanity

[01:26:15] because this is a milch special

[01:26:17] to put, like,

[01:26:18] my bicycle,

[01:26:20] master's boardwalk

[01:26:21] and quagmire

[01:26:22] with a plum.

[01:26:23] And then those that doubt me

[01:26:25] suck cock by choice.

[01:26:26] And then I just love the idea

[01:26:27] that it's by choice.

[01:26:29] Yeah, totally.

[01:26:30] Like,

[01:26:30] I'm not talking about anybody

[01:26:31] who got raped in prison,

[01:26:33] you know?

[01:26:33] Right.

[01:26:34] I'm saying you saw a cock

[01:26:36] and you went for it.

[01:26:38] I choose to suck that cock.

[01:26:41] So good.

[01:26:43] All right.

[01:26:44] That's a good one.

[01:26:45] That might win.

[01:26:46] All right.

[01:26:46] I have Bill

[01:26:48] to Wild Bill

[01:26:49] to Jack McCall.

[01:26:51] Oh,

[01:26:51] that's my next one.

[01:26:52] It's your next one?

[01:26:53] Yeah.

[01:26:53] That drooped eye of yours

[01:26:54] looks like the hood of a cunt

[01:26:56] to me, Jack.

[01:26:58] Oh, God.

[01:26:59] When you talk.

[01:27:00] Yeah, no, you do it.

[01:27:01] You have the voice better.

[01:27:03] When you talk,

[01:27:03] your mouth looks like a cunt moving.

[01:27:06] Like,

[01:27:07] what's so great about that

[01:27:08] is it actually is true.

[01:27:11] Like,

[01:27:11] of how,

[01:27:12] like,

[01:27:12] you know,

[01:27:13] like,

[01:27:13] I think this is part of the performance

[01:27:14] by Garrett Dillahunt.

[01:27:16] Like,

[01:27:16] I think he did make his mouth

[01:27:18] look like,

[01:27:19] kind of like a saggy cunt.

[01:27:20] Oh,

[01:27:21] my God,

[01:27:22] man.

[01:27:22] It's so good.

[01:27:23] The drooped eye

[01:27:24] looks like the hood of a cunt.

[01:27:25] And I love it

[01:27:26] because it is so harsh.

[01:27:28] It is effective

[01:27:30] at just fucking bringing someone down.

[01:27:34] This is,

[01:27:34] it's not for comedic effect.

[01:27:35] It is just,

[01:27:36] it's Wild Bill at his worst,

[01:27:39] but bringing all of the talents

[01:27:40] he has to bear

[01:27:41] to bring another man

[01:27:42] down to,

[01:27:44] like,

[01:27:44] feel like a piece of shit.

[01:27:45] But I think also

[01:27:46] to bring himself down

[01:27:47] because I think he knows

[01:27:49] that it's only something

[01:27:50] like that,

[01:27:51] that bad,

[01:27:52] will make him try to

[01:27:53] shoot me in the back.

[01:27:54] Yeah,

[01:27:55] that's right.

[01:27:56] All right.

[01:27:56] I did put this here,

[01:27:58] actually.

[01:27:59] Trixie's saying,

[01:28:00] talking to Ellsworth,

[01:28:01] this is about

[01:28:02] marrying Alma.

[01:28:04] And she's like,

[01:28:06] so the baby will seem like

[01:28:07] the issue of my loins?

[01:28:09] And Trixie says,

[01:28:10] as much as they care to see,

[01:28:12] so the comes true author

[01:28:13] ain't thrown in their fucking face

[01:28:15] or the true author's wife's face

[01:28:18] or the face of that

[01:28:19] little fucking boy.

[01:28:21] I mean,

[01:28:22] that's pretty good use

[01:28:23] of profanity.

[01:28:26] Trixie,

[01:28:27] I feel like,

[01:28:27] deserves to be on the list

[01:28:29] for sure.

[01:28:30] Do you have any other ones?

[01:28:32] No.

[01:28:32] I have one more

[01:28:33] that I added

[01:28:34] because I got into

[01:28:35] a Miss Isringhausen

[01:28:36] little rabbit hole.

[01:28:38] And I just remember this,

[01:28:40] Alma kind of trying

[01:28:41] to big time her

[01:28:42] and accuse her

[01:28:43] once she knows

[01:28:44] there's something wrong

[01:28:45] and even tries to slap her

[01:28:47] and Miss Isringhausen's like,

[01:28:48] don't presume ever

[01:28:49] to strike me.

[01:28:50] Like,

[01:28:51] who do you mistake me for?

[01:28:53] And Alma says,

[01:28:53] I mistake you for no one,

[01:28:55] Miss Isringhausen,

[01:28:56] and I know you

[01:28:56] for a fact.

[01:28:57] And Miss Isringhausen says,

[01:28:59] all right then,

[01:29:00] Mrs. Garrett,

[01:29:01] you've had your fit of temper.

[01:29:03] Get the fuck

[01:29:03] back to your room.

[01:29:04] Yeah.

[01:29:07] She was such a badass.

[01:29:08] Yeah.

[01:29:09] Yeah.

[01:29:10] All right.

[01:29:11] So I feel like it's between,

[01:29:13] well,

[01:29:13] this is a tough one

[01:29:14] because I like

[01:29:14] comes true author.

[01:29:16] I love those that

[01:29:18] doubt me,

[01:29:18] suck cock by choice.

[01:29:20] I love the drooped eye

[01:29:22] looks like the hood of a cunt.

[01:29:24] Yeah.

[01:29:25] This is a tough match.

[01:29:26] They should be like

[01:29:27] people doing

[01:29:27] like commentary.

[01:29:31] Right.

[01:29:32] Neck and neck.

[01:29:32] And then the Charlie one

[01:29:34] is good too.

[01:29:35] Pussified shooting.

[01:29:36] It's amazing that we had such.

[01:29:38] I know.

[01:29:38] Oh,

[01:29:39] and then be fucked.

[01:29:40] Be fucked.

[01:29:41] Right.

[01:29:43] What do you think?

[01:29:44] We have to decide.

[01:29:50] I'll go with suck cock by choice.

[01:29:52] Yeah.

[01:29:52] I was going to say,

[01:29:53] let's do that.

[01:29:54] All right.

[01:29:54] All right.

[01:29:55] Hard one.

[01:29:55] Probably the hardest one

[01:29:56] for me to decide.

[01:29:57] Super hard.

[01:29:58] You know,

[01:29:59] what's funny is like,

[01:29:59] I was thinking

[01:30:00] the comes true author.

[01:30:01] Does Trixie even think

[01:30:02] she's being profane?

[01:30:03] Like that might just be

[01:30:05] how she describes cum.

[01:30:06] Yeah.

[01:30:06] I mean,

[01:30:07] she says a lot of fucks.

[01:30:08] It's there,

[01:30:08] but that's not the point.

[01:30:09] It's the comes true.

[01:30:10] Yeah.

[01:30:10] That one should be

[01:30:11] in best turn of phrase

[01:30:12] category that we didn't.

[01:30:14] We did not have.

[01:30:14] Yeah.

[01:30:15] Yeah.

[01:30:15] All right.

[01:30:16] Best insult slur.

[01:30:19] For best insult slash slur.

[01:30:21] So we had a little bit

[01:30:22] of a back and forth

[01:30:23] about whether it should be

[01:30:24] a slur.

[01:30:25] Cause I kept to insult

[01:30:26] because it could include

[01:30:29] non sort of derogatory

[01:30:30] group based membership.

[01:30:32] So I have,

[01:30:33] I love the exchange

[01:30:35] and you probably remember

[01:30:35] that I loved it

[01:30:36] when Moe's is trying

[01:30:38] to wake Jane up.

[01:30:39] Get out of my fucking light.

[01:30:41] It's me.

[01:30:44] Who's me?

[01:30:45] The fucking eclipse?

[01:30:47] Moe's manual.

[01:30:48] Oh,

[01:30:49] really?

[01:30:49] I thought it was

[01:30:52] Giganto.

[01:30:53] The runaway circus elephant.

[01:30:56] Miss Stubbs

[01:30:57] been looking for you.

[01:31:00] Those kids need

[01:31:01] Zaperone into

[01:31:02] the new schoolhouse,

[01:31:03] Jane.

[01:31:05] I cannot see you

[01:31:10] any longer.

[01:31:12] Fucking

[01:31:12] Rob.

[01:31:17] Get up

[01:31:19] and walk them kids.

[01:31:21] Okay,

[01:31:22] Giganto.

[01:31:23] Ask me to death

[01:31:29] with your tusks.

[01:31:31] Don't ask me to death

[01:31:33] with your tusks.

[01:31:34] That could have been

[01:31:35] an episode title

[01:31:36] for that.

[01:31:37] Yeah.

[01:31:37] Yeah.

[01:31:38] I went with more slurs

[01:31:40] for this,

[01:31:41] although I have a couple

[01:31:42] of insults at the end.

[01:31:43] But one of my favorite

[01:31:44] just slurs

[01:31:45] is the dirt worshipers.

[01:31:47] Yeah,

[01:31:47] I know.

[01:31:48] If I was going for slurs,

[01:31:49] I would have included

[01:31:50] dirt worshipers.

[01:31:50] It's just so good.

[01:31:53] That's probably

[01:31:54] maybe my favorite.

[01:31:56] And I was trying to decide

[01:31:56] whether celestial

[01:31:57] was a slur back then.

[01:31:59] I know.

[01:31:59] I have that on my list though.

[01:32:01] Yeah,

[01:32:01] I have celestials

[01:32:02] for the,

[01:32:03] like I don't even know

[01:32:04] if it's a slur.

[01:32:05] It's a very funny thing

[01:32:06] to call the Chinese people

[01:32:08] that are like,

[01:32:09] what's your next one?

[01:32:10] My next one is,

[01:32:12] again,

[01:32:12] an insult.

[01:32:13] And I think it's my favorite

[01:32:14] of the insults.

[01:32:15] Could you have been born,

[01:32:16] Richardson,

[01:32:16] and not egg hatched

[01:32:18] as I've always assumed?

[01:32:19] Did your mother

[01:32:20] hover over you

[01:32:20] snaggletoothed

[01:32:21] and doting on

[01:32:22] as you now hover over me?

[01:32:24] I have that in best quote.

[01:32:25] I feel like

[01:32:26] that should graduate

[01:32:27] to best quote.

[01:32:28] Like that's what,

[01:32:29] it should be competing

[01:32:30] in those waters.

[01:32:31] okay.

[01:32:32] And the only other insult

[01:32:33] I have,

[01:32:33] which is not that good,

[01:32:35] is when Utter tells Hurst,

[01:32:37] I guess someone looking hard

[01:32:38] might could find you

[01:32:38] peeking from under the covers

[01:32:40] to make a fucking threat.

[01:32:41] Only because

[01:32:42] it was so insulting.

[01:32:44] Like,

[01:32:44] and it was such,

[01:32:45] it was so ballsy

[01:32:46] of Charlie

[01:32:47] to be insulting Hurst

[01:32:48] directly like that.

[01:32:49] And very Charlie

[01:32:50] to do that too

[01:32:51] because he doesn't care.

[01:32:53] Yeah.

[01:32:53] All right.

[01:32:54] I have,

[01:32:55] in addition to the celestials

[01:32:57] and the dirt worshippers

[01:32:58] to round out my slurs,

[01:33:00] square heads.

[01:33:01] Oh yeah,

[01:33:02] square heads.

[01:33:03] They would call it

[01:33:04] like Scandinavians.

[01:33:07] But square heads is great.

[01:33:08] Loopy cunt I had.

[01:33:10] I also had to thwart

[01:33:11] that Abyssinian,

[01:33:13] which I don't even know

[01:33:14] if Abyssinian is a real slur either.

[01:33:16] But there's just

[01:33:16] something so good about it.

[01:33:18] Yeah.

[01:33:18] It was like Aunt Lou

[01:33:19] or something?

[01:33:19] It was her son.

[01:33:21] Yeah.

[01:33:22] She tells Richardson

[01:33:23] to thwart that Abyssinian

[01:33:25] and Richardson's like,

[01:33:26] I don't know what that means.

[01:33:27] Yeah.

[01:33:28] I like that Dan

[01:33:29] says this about Captain Turner.

[01:33:31] He calls him

[01:33:32] that sea creature

[01:33:33] looking cocksucker.

[01:33:34] Yeah.

[01:33:35] It's great.

[01:33:36] That's good.

[01:33:37] Can I,

[01:33:38] I have a kind of

[01:33:39] a strong opinion.

[01:33:40] Okay.

[01:33:46] Dirt worshippers.

[01:33:47] Yeah.

[01:33:47] I was going to say

[01:33:48] let's go with dirt worshippers

[01:33:49] because it captures the slur.

[01:33:51] And then my other top

[01:33:52] can move to best quote.

[01:33:53] Yeah.

[01:33:54] Exactly.

[01:33:55] That's such a good one.

[01:33:55] But at least I got to get

[01:33:56] the Jane's

[01:33:57] don't tusk me to death

[01:33:58] with your tusks.

[01:34:00] That's great.

[01:34:01] All right.

[01:34:02] Now we have best

[01:34:02] anti-Semitic slur,

[01:34:04] which is different

[01:34:05] than insult slur.

[01:34:07] And I thought

[01:34:08] this was a,

[01:34:09] and I blame my people.

[01:34:10] This was a hard one

[01:34:11] to just research.

[01:34:13] Yeah.

[01:34:13] You know,

[01:34:14] like I couldn't find

[01:34:15] like the really good ones.

[01:34:17] Like I feel like

[01:34:18] there should be like

[01:34:19] 20 from Trixie alone

[01:34:20] and I have none

[01:34:21] from Trixie.

[01:34:22] And like,

[01:34:23] this is like,

[01:34:24] I should have,

[01:34:25] like,

[01:34:25] I know we've talked

[01:34:26] about them on the episode.

[01:34:27] The problem is

[01:34:28] that they're always said

[01:34:30] in a kind of loving way.

[01:34:33] And so they don't come across

[01:34:34] as super slurry,

[01:34:36] but she refers to him

[01:34:37] as her Jew a lot.

[01:34:39] Yeah.

[01:34:40] I like that.

[01:34:42] Yeah.

[01:34:42] I just,

[01:34:43] that's actually one of mine

[01:34:44] is just get the Jew,

[01:34:47] you know,

[01:34:47] where they talk about Saul,

[01:34:49] like Al would just

[01:34:49] kind of casually toss up,

[01:34:51] get the Jew.

[01:34:52] And when he sees Trixie

[01:34:54] and he says,

[01:34:55] how's the Jew fucking?

[01:34:57] Yeah.

[01:34:58] So good.

[01:34:59] Okay.

[01:35:00] I have one that's like

[01:35:01] genuinely anti-Semitic moment.

[01:35:03] And that is

[01:35:03] when Hearst

[01:35:05] is signing the contract.

[01:35:06] Oh yeah.

[01:35:07] He's annoyed

[01:35:08] that they want to like

[01:35:09] make sure

[01:35:10] that everything's signed well

[01:35:11] and that the gold's purity

[01:35:12] is essayed.

[01:35:13] He goes,

[01:35:14] have the gold senior

[01:35:15] bank Newman,

[01:35:15] have its purity assayed,

[01:35:17] let her or her seconds

[01:35:19] choose the man.

[01:35:19] When that tedium is completed,

[01:35:21] have the documents witnessed

[01:35:22] as though we were

[01:35:23] all of us Jews

[01:35:24] and bring the business

[01:35:25] back to me.

[01:35:26] And then he turns to Saul

[01:35:26] and says,

[01:35:27] excuse my absence,

[01:35:28] Mr. Stars.

[01:35:29] I hope you'll forgive

[01:35:29] my thoughtless aspersion

[01:35:31] on your race.

[01:35:32] But that one was just like

[01:35:33] from the bones

[01:35:34] anti-Semitic.

[01:35:36] Yeah.

[01:35:36] Yeah.

[01:35:37] And you know,

[01:35:37] I think Saul,

[01:35:38] what did he say about Al

[01:35:40] after one of his things?

[01:35:42] Like I've been called worse

[01:35:44] by better.

[01:35:45] By better.

[01:35:45] Yeah.

[01:35:46] Yeah.

[01:35:47] Like he,

[01:35:48] he just always takes it

[01:35:49] in stride.

[01:35:50] All right.

[01:35:50] I have one unlike that one

[01:35:52] because you are clearly

[01:35:54] just love to get this

[01:35:55] off your chest

[01:35:56] in a kind of safe environment.

[01:35:59] I just turn to my network.

[01:36:00] Yeah.

[01:36:01] Right.

[01:36:02] It's just like,

[01:36:03] you have whole message boards

[01:36:05] of anti-Semitic slurs.

[01:36:08] This is one that's tossed off

[01:36:11] with affection.

[01:36:12] I think it comes from Al

[01:36:13] to Saul

[01:36:14] when Al is trying

[01:36:16] to get people

[01:36:16] to come to his place.

[01:36:17] I forget for what.

[01:36:19] And Saul gets it.

[01:36:20] He gets why Al wants

[01:36:22] to have everyone meet.

[01:36:24] And Al looks at him

[01:36:25] and he goes,

[01:36:25] centuries of fucking inbreeding

[01:36:27] attune him

[01:36:27] to the necessities

[01:36:28] of the times.

[01:36:29] That's good.

[01:36:32] That's so funny.

[01:36:33] And he means that,

[01:36:34] and then he goes like,

[01:36:35] great work here

[01:36:35] about the hardware store.

[01:36:37] Like,

[01:36:37] I think that's from Mr. Wu.

[01:36:39] Like,

[01:36:39] or maybe it's,

[01:36:40] yeah,

[01:36:40] I think it's from,

[01:36:41] like Al's just out

[01:36:42] and about

[01:36:42] like gathering forces.

[01:36:45] Yeah.

[01:36:45] Yeah.

[01:36:47] Mine is Al

[01:36:48] and I'm trying to remember

[01:36:49] what had happened here.

[01:36:52] But he says,

[01:36:53] I think we have the same one.

[01:36:54] Wave a penny.

[01:36:55] Yeah.

[01:36:56] Yeah.

[01:36:56] Wave a penny under the Jews' nose.

[01:36:58] If they've got living breath in them,

[01:36:59] it brings them right round.

[01:37:00] Yeah.

[01:37:01] Yeah.

[01:37:03] Good one.

[01:37:04] I would go with either of those.

[01:37:06] Oh,

[01:37:06] I have another one.

[01:37:07] Oh,

[01:37:07] you have another one.

[01:37:08] Yeah.

[01:37:08] In fact,

[01:37:08] my favorite.

[01:37:09] Okay,

[01:37:10] good.

[01:37:10] It is E.B.

[01:37:12] when he's giving his speech

[01:37:13] for mayor

[01:37:14] and he's running against

[01:37:15] Saul Starr

[01:37:16] and he just threw out

[01:37:17] and makes anti-Semitic comments.

[01:37:19] But his ending line is,

[01:37:20] Clear choice

[01:37:21] for Deadwood.

[01:37:24] Farnham,

[01:37:24] twice measured,

[01:37:26] Starr,

[01:37:27] once cut.

[01:37:29] Farnham,

[01:37:30] twice measured,

[01:37:31] Starr,

[01:37:32] once cut.

[01:37:37] All right,

[01:37:38] I'll go with that one.

[01:37:39] That's a good one.

[01:37:41] It's clever.

[01:37:42] Very clever.

[01:37:44] Remember when he does

[01:37:45] the nose thing?

[01:37:46] Yeah.

[01:37:47] Like,

[01:37:47] as if people didn't get it.

[01:37:51] And no one's really

[01:37:52] paying attention

[01:37:53] or listening.

[01:37:55] Very funny.

[01:37:56] All right,

[01:37:57] we are now

[01:37:58] to

[01:37:59] best quote.

[01:38:01] This was such a hard one.

[01:38:02] This was a hard one.

[01:38:04] Yeah.

[01:38:04] All right,

[01:38:05] should I go first?

[01:38:06] Go for it.

[01:38:06] So this is one

[01:38:07] that I remember,

[01:38:10] you know,

[01:38:10] even if I haven't watched

[01:38:11] the show for a few years,

[01:38:12] like,

[01:38:13] I know this is coming

[01:38:14] and I know I love it.

[01:38:15] Al is talking to Merrick.

[01:38:17] Merrick has just had

[01:38:19] his place ransacked

[01:38:21] and he's been roughed up

[01:38:22] by some of Walcott's men

[01:38:24] and Hearst's men.

[01:38:25] And this is in the episode

[01:38:27] EB was left out

[01:38:28] middle of season two.

[01:38:30] Al's like,

[01:38:31] are you dead?

[01:38:32] Merrick says,

[01:38:33] well,

[01:38:33] I'm in pain,

[01:38:34] but no,

[01:38:35] obviously I'm not dead.

[01:38:36] So including last night,

[01:38:38] that's three fucking

[01:38:39] damage incidents

[01:38:40] that didn't kill you.

[01:38:42] Pain

[01:38:42] or damage

[01:38:44] don't end the world

[01:38:45] or despair

[01:38:46] or fucking beatings.

[01:38:50] The world ends

[01:38:51] when you're dead.

[01:38:53] Until then,

[01:38:55] you got more punishment

[01:38:56] in store.

[01:38:57] Stand it like a man

[01:39:00] and give some back.

[01:39:02] So good.

[01:39:03] Yeah.

[01:39:03] And he starts out

[01:39:04] slapping him

[01:39:05] and Merrick's like

[01:39:05] really hurt by it.

[01:39:07] Surprisingly,

[01:39:07] Al.

[01:39:08] Yeah.

[01:39:09] And then by the end,

[01:39:11] Merrick feels like

[01:39:12] he got the fire back in him.

[01:39:15] Like that's the power

[01:39:16] of Al here.

[01:39:17] You know,

[01:39:17] like he does something,

[01:39:18] but this is a lesson.

[01:39:21] This is like the lesson

[01:39:22] we all need.

[01:39:23] We all need Al

[01:39:24] to say this to us

[01:39:26] when we're feeling like

[01:39:27] the world is attacking us

[01:39:29] and it's so unfair.

[01:39:30] You know,

[01:39:30] like this is wisdom.

[01:39:32] And it's also just true.

[01:39:34] The world ends

[01:39:34] when you're dead.

[01:39:35] Like that's how

[01:39:36] the world ends

[01:39:36] for everybody.

[01:39:37] Yeah.

[01:39:38] And until then,

[01:39:39] like you just got to

[01:39:40] take it like a man,

[01:39:41] you know,

[01:39:42] it really is Al's

[01:39:43] philosophy of life

[01:39:44] like right here,

[01:39:45] you know,

[01:39:46] like give a little back.

[01:39:47] Don't take too much shit.

[01:39:49] And when you have to

[01:39:50] take it,

[01:39:51] don't whine about it.

[01:39:52] Yeah.

[01:39:53] I've used this

[01:39:54] as an opening

[01:39:54] for very bad wizards

[01:39:55] for sure.

[01:39:56] Yeah.

[01:39:57] Yeah.

[01:39:58] Okay.

[01:39:58] That was definitely

[01:39:59] on my list.

[01:39:59] I think that was

[01:40:00] the second one.

[01:40:01] Okay.

[01:40:01] My third one was,

[01:40:03] I'll tell you what,

[01:40:04] I may have fucked

[01:40:05] my life up flatter

[01:40:06] than hammered shit,

[01:40:07] but I stand before you

[01:40:08] today beholden

[01:40:09] to no human cocksucker.

[01:40:11] Al's worth.

[01:40:11] Al's worth to Al.

[01:40:12] First episode.

[01:40:13] I put that clip

[01:40:14] in the last episode

[01:40:15] like the,

[01:40:16] Oh yeah,

[01:40:16] you did.

[01:40:17] Of Deadwood.

[01:40:17] Or maybe the one

[01:40:18] where he dies.

[01:40:19] I forget.

[01:40:20] But yeah,

[01:40:21] that's such a great one.

[01:40:22] So good.

[01:40:22] That announces

[01:40:23] the show almost.

[01:40:25] Like I think

[01:40:25] when you think

[01:40:26] of the pilot,

[01:40:27] you kind of,

[01:40:28] Oh,

[01:40:28] this is what

[01:40:28] this show

[01:40:29] is going to be.

[01:40:30] Yeah.

[01:40:30] Because again,

[01:40:31] it is,

[01:40:31] I stand beholden

[01:40:33] to no human cocksucker.

[01:40:34] That's kind of

[01:40:35] the ethos of the show

[01:40:36] that they have to

[01:40:37] mature out of

[01:40:38] to a degree.

[01:40:39] And Al's worth

[01:40:40] specifically

[01:40:41] matures right out of it.

[01:40:42] Yeah.

[01:40:43] Great one.

[01:40:44] All right.

[01:40:45] I have,

[01:40:46] I'm just going to give

[01:40:46] my EB ones.

[01:40:47] I have three

[01:40:48] and like,

[01:40:49] that's not anywhere

[01:40:50] near enough.

[01:40:53] First one.

[01:40:54] This is after

[01:40:54] he's been elected mayor.

[01:40:56] August commencement

[01:40:57] to my administration.

[01:40:59] Standing stymied

[01:41:00] outside a saloon

[01:41:01] next to a degenerate

[01:41:02] tit liquor.

[01:41:04] So good.

[01:41:05] I think about

[01:41:06] August commencement

[01:41:06] all the time.

[01:41:09] That's a very

[01:41:10] EB way

[01:41:11] of trying to say

[01:41:12] like,

[01:41:13] Oh,

[01:41:13] we're off

[01:41:13] to a good start.

[01:41:16] That's great.

[01:41:17] Yeah.

[01:41:18] I had,

[01:41:19] could you have

[01:41:20] been born Richardson

[01:41:21] and not egg hatched

[01:41:24] as I've always assumed?

[01:41:26] Did your mother

[01:41:27] hover over you

[01:41:30] snaggletoothed

[01:41:30] and doting

[01:41:31] as you now

[01:41:32] hover over me?

[01:41:34] I wish I would have

[01:41:35] been there

[01:41:35] when Milch

[01:41:36] presumably wrote it

[01:41:37] just to see

[01:41:38] the spirit of God

[01:41:40] enter his soul

[01:41:42] and just like

[01:41:43] take pen to paper.

[01:41:45] And manifest itself

[01:41:46] perfectly in EB.

[01:41:47] Like I think

[01:41:48] they're like

[01:41:48] both him

[01:41:49] and Ian McShane

[01:41:50] and EB

[01:41:52] like those

[01:41:53] are the perfect

[01:41:54] people to say

[01:41:54] the words

[01:41:55] that you're writing

[01:41:55] for them.

[01:41:56] It's incredible.

[01:41:58] It's like Gabriel

[01:41:58] to Muhammad.

[01:42:00] Yes.

[01:42:02] I think.

[01:42:04] This is EB

[01:42:05] talking to Hurst

[01:42:06] when he's having

[01:42:07] diarrhea.

[01:42:08] You remember

[01:42:08] the episode

[01:42:08] where he kind

[01:42:09] of has diarrhea

[01:42:09] and Hurst

[01:42:11] asks him something

[01:42:12] and he says

[01:42:13] allow me a moment

[01:42:14] silent Mr. Hurst

[01:42:15] sir.

[01:42:15] I am having

[01:42:16] a digestive crisis

[01:42:18] and must focus

[01:42:19] on its suppression.

[01:42:21] That's so good.

[01:42:23] Oh my god.

[01:42:24] Alright.

[01:42:25] Those are my

[01:42:25] three EB ones.

[01:42:27] I have two more

[01:42:28] but what are

[01:42:28] your other ones

[01:42:29] if you have any?

[01:42:29] Okay.

[01:42:30] My other one

[01:42:32] is Jane

[01:42:33] when she says

[01:42:34] every day

[01:42:34] takes figuring out

[01:42:35] all over again

[01:42:36] on how to fucking live.

[01:42:37] It's just deep wisdom.

[01:42:39] Yeah.

[01:42:39] Sometimes the show

[01:42:40] would just give you

[01:42:41] like the perfect

[01:42:43] phrase to describe

[01:42:44] like a character

[01:42:45] and then also

[01:42:46] just an aspect

[01:42:47] of life.

[01:42:48] Yeah.

[01:42:48] And then I had

[01:42:49] one that I just

[01:42:50] had to put in here

[01:42:50] I don't think

[01:42:51] it deserves to win

[01:42:52] but the delivery

[01:42:53] makes me laugh

[01:42:54] every single time

[01:42:55] is when Jewel

[01:42:56] says to Al

[01:42:57] I'm knocked up.

[01:42:58] Yeah and Al's like

[01:42:59] what the fuck?

[01:43:01] It's when she was

[01:43:02] going to dock

[01:43:03] I think it was

[01:43:03] in Jewel's boot

[01:43:04] was made for walking.

[01:43:06] Yeah.

[01:43:07] Okay.

[01:43:08] I have

[01:43:08] this is just

[01:43:09] kind of a classic

[01:43:09] like you'll find

[01:43:10] this on lists

[01:43:11] but this is

[01:43:12] early Al

[01:43:13] after there was

[01:43:14] news of that

[01:43:15] the Norwegian

[01:43:17] family

[01:43:17] or the Scandinavian

[01:43:18] family

[01:43:18] had been killed

[01:43:20] except for

[01:43:20] Sophia

[01:43:21] and he says

[01:43:23] that's all I say

[01:43:24] on that subject

[01:43:25] except that

[01:43:25] shrouds on the

[01:43:26] house.

[01:43:27] God rest

[01:43:28] the souls

[01:43:29] of that

[01:43:29] poor family

[01:43:33] and pussy's

[01:43:34] half price

[01:43:34] next 15 minutes.

[01:43:37] That's so good.

[01:43:39] Oh God

[01:43:40] it's so good.

[01:43:42] Talk about

[01:43:43] sacred and profane.

[01:43:45] Yeah

[01:43:45] exactly.

[01:43:46] Not the pussy

[01:43:46] isn't sacred

[01:43:47] but you know

[01:43:47] I always thought

[01:43:48] it was.

[01:43:49] All right

[01:43:49] so what do we

[01:43:50] choose here?

[01:43:52] Do we go with

[01:43:53] could you have

[01:43:54] been born

[01:43:54] and not egg

[01:43:55] that?

[01:43:56] That one's so good

[01:43:56] it's just

[01:43:57] less wise

[01:43:58] you know?

[01:44:00] Yeah

[01:44:00] yeah maybe the

[01:44:01] Merrick one

[01:44:02] yeah

[01:44:03] I think it should be

[01:44:04] my heart goes to

[01:44:05] the Merrick one

[01:44:05] yeah

[01:44:05] all right

[01:44:06] the ambi goes

[01:44:07] to Al

[01:44:14] giving Merrick

[01:44:15] the talk

[01:44:15] that we all

[01:44:16] need to get

[01:44:17] from somebody

[01:44:18] from time

[01:44:19] to time

[01:44:19] yeah

[01:44:21] all right

[01:44:21] that's the ambi

[01:44:22] for best quote

[01:44:23] now we have

[01:44:24] best episode

[01:44:26] one of the ones

[01:44:26] I felt least

[01:44:27] good about

[01:44:29] me too

[01:44:29] isn't it so weird

[01:44:30] yeah

[01:44:31] in fact

[01:44:32] as I was making

[01:44:33] my list

[01:44:33] I was like

[01:44:33] I don't believe

[01:44:34] my own list

[01:44:35] because

[01:44:36] if we went back

[01:44:37] and listened

[01:44:38] to all of our

[01:44:38] episodes

[01:44:39] like maybe

[01:44:39] we could see

[01:44:40] which ones

[01:44:40] we were most

[01:44:40] enthused about

[01:44:41] no that's right

[01:44:42] that's the thing

[01:44:42] that drove me

[01:44:43] crazy is

[01:44:44] I know

[01:44:45] like there are

[01:44:46] certain episodes

[01:44:46] where we probably

[01:44:47] said

[01:44:47] this is my

[01:44:48] favorite episode

[01:44:49] maybe

[01:44:49] this is a top

[01:44:50] three

[01:44:51] this is a mountain

[01:44:51] rush

[01:44:51] and I don't

[01:44:52] remember what

[01:44:53] those were

[01:44:53] I know

[01:44:54] it feels like

[01:44:55] betraying ourselves

[01:44:56] yeah

[01:44:57] and so now

[01:44:58] I feel like

[01:44:58] I'm just doing

[01:44:59] ones that I

[01:45:00] cobbled together

[01:45:01] from like

[01:45:02] reading synopses

[01:45:03] and

[01:45:04] and other lists

[01:45:05] but I do feel

[01:45:07] good about

[01:45:07] I think

[01:45:08] the one that I

[01:45:09] think is probably

[01:45:10] the best episode

[01:45:11] yeah

[01:45:12] I think I do too

[01:45:13] it'll be interesting

[01:45:14] to see

[01:45:14] yeah

[01:45:15] so I'll just

[01:45:16] toss one out

[01:45:17] EB was left

[01:45:17] out

[01:45:18] is a great

[01:45:19] episode

[01:45:19] that's a great

[01:45:19] episode

[01:45:20] the title is

[01:45:21] referring to

[01:45:21] when they all

[01:45:22] get together

[01:45:22] to have a town

[01:45:23] hall meeting

[01:45:24] without EB

[01:45:25] all right

[01:45:26] I have one

[01:45:27] that's kind

[01:45:27] of like that

[01:45:28] and then it

[01:45:28] revolves around

[01:45:29] a meeting

[01:45:30] and it's from

[01:45:30] season three

[01:45:32] unauthorized cinema

[01:45:34] yeah

[01:45:34] I think it's

[01:45:35] one of the best

[01:45:36] episodes about

[01:45:37] the town

[01:45:37] Al is still

[01:45:38] struggling to

[01:45:39] find his

[01:45:40] footing

[01:45:40] and you know

[01:45:40] because he's

[01:45:42] only a few

[01:45:42] episodes out

[01:45:43] from having

[01:45:44] his finger

[01:45:44] cut off

[01:45:45] and he kind

[01:45:45] of needs

[01:45:46] the community

[01:45:46] to be there

[01:45:47] more than

[01:45:47] ever

[01:45:48] they need

[01:45:48] to figure out

[01:45:49] how to deal

[01:45:49] with the fact

[01:45:50] that this

[01:45:50] Cornishman was

[01:45:51] murdered

[01:45:52] for trying to

[01:45:53] unionize

[01:45:54] or something

[01:45:54] like that

[01:45:55] and they just

[01:45:56] come through

[01:45:56] for Al

[01:45:57] the town

[01:45:58] like Bullock

[01:45:59] comes through

[01:45:59] and it's like

[01:46:00] such a weird

[01:46:01] twist almost

[01:46:02] at the meeting

[01:46:03] when they end

[01:46:05] up just deciding

[01:46:06] to publish

[01:46:07] a letter

[01:46:08] that Bullock

[01:46:09] wrote to

[01:46:09] the Cornishman's

[01:46:10] relatives

[01:46:11] which is

[01:46:12] not clear

[01:46:13] like strategically

[01:46:15] what that's

[01:46:16] going to do

[01:46:16] in their battle

[01:46:17] against Hearst

[01:46:18] but it just

[01:46:19] seems like

[01:46:20] the decent

[01:46:20] thing to do

[01:46:21] and they all

[01:46:21] just kind of

[01:46:22] without even

[01:46:23] really understanding

[01:46:24] themselves

[01:46:25] why

[01:46:27] everyone was

[01:46:28] just like

[01:46:28] okay yeah

[01:46:29] we do that

[01:46:29] you know

[01:46:30] it's like

[01:46:31] when all else

[01:46:31] fails

[01:46:32] do the

[01:46:32] decent thing

[01:46:33] you know

[01:46:34] like just

[01:46:34] do the right

[01:46:35] thing

[01:46:35] and see

[01:46:36] it's a really

[01:46:37] nice episode

[01:46:37] it's also

[01:46:38] where

[01:46:38] Jewel

[01:46:39] puts unauthorized

[01:46:41] cinnamon

[01:46:41] on the table

[01:46:42] and I think

[01:46:43] Harry

[01:46:44] is the

[01:46:45] victim

[01:46:46] yeah

[01:46:49] yeah

[01:46:50] great episode

[01:46:50] it was under

[01:46:51] consideration

[01:46:52] for me

[01:46:52] I don't know

[01:46:53] why

[01:46:54] I included

[01:46:55] or didn't

[01:46:55] include

[01:46:55] Plague

[01:46:57] for me

[01:46:57] season one

[01:46:58] episode six

[01:46:59] this has

[01:47:00] just that

[01:47:01] great part

[01:47:02] where Bullock

[01:47:03] fights the

[01:47:04] Lakota warrior

[01:47:04] and

[01:47:05] oh yeah

[01:47:06] is like

[01:47:06] near death

[01:47:07] because he

[01:47:08] was tracking

[01:47:08] Jack McCall

[01:47:09] that's another

[01:47:10] one of those

[01:47:10] fights

[01:47:10] yeah

[01:47:11] and by the

[01:47:12] end he

[01:47:12] Charlie

[01:47:13] finds him

[01:47:14] and just a

[01:47:15] nice moment

[01:47:15] between he

[01:47:16] and Charlie

[01:47:16] and they

[01:47:17] like respectfully

[01:47:18] bury him

[01:47:19] according to

[01:47:20] his traditions

[01:47:20] yeah

[01:47:21] yeah

[01:47:21] beautiful episode

[01:47:22] yeah

[01:47:23] and one of

[01:47:24] the very few

[01:47:25] that a lot

[01:47:25] of it takes

[01:47:26] place outside

[01:47:27] Deadwood

[01:47:27] that almost

[01:47:27] never happens

[01:47:28] yeah

[01:47:29] and might be

[01:47:30] the only episode

[01:47:30] actually where

[01:47:31] that happens

[01:47:32] yeah maybe

[01:47:33] I can't think

[01:47:34] of anything

[01:47:35] else where

[01:47:35] they ever

[01:47:36] leave

[01:47:36] all right

[01:47:37] my next

[01:47:38] one

[01:47:38] this is

[01:47:39] my number

[01:47:40] two

[01:47:40] is

[01:47:42] the first

[01:47:43] episode of

[01:47:43] season two

[01:47:44] this is where

[01:47:45] Bullock is kind

[01:47:46] of facing his

[01:47:47] demons

[01:47:47] his guilt

[01:47:48] his lust

[01:47:49] for Alma

[01:47:50] he has this

[01:47:51] kind of loud

[01:47:51] sex with Alma

[01:47:52] while Isringhausen

[01:47:53] and Sophia

[01:47:54] are trying to

[01:47:55] eat breakfast

[01:47:56] this is a lie

[01:47:57] agreed upon

[01:47:57] part one

[01:47:58] yeah lie

[01:47:58] agreed upon

[01:47:59] part one

[01:47:59] and you know

[01:48:01] his rage

[01:48:02] that's the number

[01:48:03] one thing

[01:48:04] his rage

[01:48:04] and you know

[01:48:05] this is where

[01:48:06] the fight with

[01:48:06] Al off the

[01:48:07] balcony

[01:48:07] comes in

[01:48:08] so yeah

[01:48:09] the episode

[01:48:09] is called

[01:48:09] a lie

[01:48:10] agreed upon

[01:48:11] because of

[01:48:12] a quote

[01:48:12] like from

[01:48:14] Napoleon

[01:48:14] I guess

[01:48:15] history is

[01:48:15] a lie

[01:48:16] agreed upon

[01:48:16] you know

[01:48:17] the way

[01:48:17] this two

[01:48:18] episode arc

[01:48:19] ends

[01:48:19] it's like

[01:48:20] that's going

[01:48:20] to apply

[01:48:21] very personally

[01:48:22] to so many

[01:48:23] different characters

[01:48:23] including

[01:48:24] Seth and

[01:48:25] Martha

[01:48:25] essentially

[01:48:26] they're going

[01:48:26] to agree

[01:48:27] upon the

[01:48:27] lie

[01:48:27] that he

[01:48:28] didn't

[01:48:29] have this

[01:48:29] affair

[01:48:30] with

[01:48:31] Alma

[01:48:31] but like

[01:48:32] it's really

[01:48:33] interesting

[01:48:33] after the

[01:48:34] finale

[01:48:35] where things

[01:48:36] kind of

[01:48:36] ended on

[01:48:36] a nice

[01:48:37] note

[01:48:37] now things

[01:48:38] are really

[01:48:38] bad

[01:48:39] and clearly

[01:48:40] Bullock

[01:48:40] just can't

[01:48:41] deal with

[01:48:42] his

[01:48:43] kind of

[01:48:43] two-faced

[01:48:44] attitudes

[01:48:45] about being

[01:48:46] the sheriff

[01:48:47] but also

[01:48:49] you know

[01:48:50] having this

[01:48:50] thing with

[01:48:51] Alma

[01:48:51] and he's

[01:48:52] so frustrated

[01:48:53] and Al

[01:48:54] is so frustrated

[01:48:54] with Bullock

[01:48:55] he's like

[01:48:55] just do your

[01:48:56] fucking job

[01:48:57] like we need

[01:48:58] you to

[01:48:58] actually do

[01:48:59] your job

[01:48:59] and you're

[01:48:59] too

[01:49:00] construct

[01:49:00] to like

[01:49:01] do it

[01:49:02] properly

[01:49:02] and they

[01:49:03] both just

[01:49:03] can't

[01:49:04] calibrate

[01:49:04] like how

[01:49:05] annoyed

[01:49:06] they are

[01:49:07] with each

[01:49:07] other

[01:49:08] and it

[01:49:09] just leads

[01:49:09] to this

[01:49:09] incredible

[01:49:10] fight

[01:49:11] you know

[01:49:11] so many

[01:49:13] fights

[01:49:13] that we've

[01:49:14] talked about

[01:49:14] but like

[01:49:15] the one

[01:49:15] with the

[01:49:15] Native

[01:49:15] American

[01:49:16] this one

[01:49:17] and then

[01:49:17] the one

[01:49:18] with Captain

[01:49:19] Turner

[01:49:19] and Dan

[01:49:19] they're just

[01:49:20] these real

[01:49:21] bare knuckled

[01:49:22] like brutal

[01:49:24] fights

[01:49:25] that last

[01:49:26] longer

[01:49:26] than you

[01:49:27] think

[01:49:27] any fight

[01:49:28] would

[01:49:28] in a TV

[01:49:29] show

[01:49:29] and then

[01:49:31] ending

[01:49:31] then with

[01:49:32] Martha

[01:49:33] and the

[01:49:34] boy

[01:49:34] and the

[01:49:35] whores

[01:49:36] coming

[01:49:37] and welcome

[01:49:38] to fucking

[01:49:39] Deadwood

[01:49:40] yeah

[01:49:40] and be a little

[01:49:41] combative

[01:49:42] definitely on my

[01:49:43] list

[01:49:43] in fact

[01:49:44] it was tough

[01:49:45] because

[01:49:45] as we

[01:49:46] struggled

[01:49:46] with

[01:49:46] when we

[01:49:47] were doing

[01:49:47] episode

[01:49:48] by episode

[01:49:48] you kind

[01:49:49] of want

[01:49:50] to include

[01:49:50] the parts

[01:49:51] one and

[01:49:52] two

[01:49:52] sometimes

[01:49:53] as one

[01:49:54] and so

[01:49:55] a lie

[01:49:55] agreed upon

[01:49:56] part one

[01:49:56] and part

[01:49:57] two

[01:49:57] together

[01:49:57] yeah

[01:49:58] they should

[01:49:59] win

[01:49:59] maybe

[01:50:00] no

[01:50:01] my other

[01:50:01] I'll say

[01:50:02] my other

[01:50:02] yeah

[01:50:03] no

[01:50:03] I disagree

[01:50:03] with it

[01:50:04] my top

[01:50:05] really

[01:50:06] is

[01:50:07] okay

[01:50:07] if you

[01:50:08] don't let

[01:50:08] me give

[01:50:08] the two

[01:50:09] episodes

[01:50:10] then I'll

[01:50:11] have to

[01:50:11] pick

[01:50:11] one of

[01:50:12] these

[01:50:12] but

[01:50:13] Jules

[01:50:13] Boots

[01:50:14] Made

[01:50:14] for Walking

[01:50:15] and Sold

[01:50:16] Under Sin

[01:50:16] as a package

[01:50:18] yeah

[01:50:19] Sold Under

[01:50:19] Sin

[01:50:19] is my

[01:50:20] number one

[01:50:20] yeah

[01:50:20] Sold Under

[01:50:21] Sin

[01:50:21] would be

[01:50:22] my number

[01:50:22] one

[01:50:22] too

[01:50:22] it's just

[01:50:23] Jules Boot

[01:50:24] is Made

[01:50:24] for Walking

[01:50:25] is

[01:50:25] you can't

[01:50:26] tell

[01:50:26] Sold Under

[01:50:27] Sin

[01:50:27] without

[01:50:27] without

[01:50:28] and Jules Boot

[01:50:29] is Made

[01:50:29] For Walking

[01:50:29] is the one

[01:50:30] that ends

[01:50:30] of course

[01:50:30] with the

[01:50:31] scene

[01:50:31] that we

[01:50:32] picked

[01:50:33] for best

[01:50:33] scene

[01:50:33] right

[01:50:34] yeah

[01:50:34] right

[01:50:34] yeah

[01:50:35] so

[01:50:36] so

[01:50:36] it's

[01:50:37] tough

[01:50:37] so I

[01:50:38] would say

[01:50:38] Sold Under

[01:50:39] Sin

[01:50:39] given that

[01:50:39] we honored

[01:50:40] Jules Boot

[01:50:41] was Made

[01:50:41] For Walking

[01:50:42] with AMB

[01:50:43] already

[01:50:43] so maybe

[01:50:44] we do Sold

[01:50:45] Under Sin

[01:50:45] so yeah

[01:50:46] I think this

[01:50:48] is the

[01:50:48] best episode

[01:50:49] of Deadwood

[01:50:50] I think it

[01:50:50] is too

[01:50:51] this is where

[01:50:52] Bullock

[01:50:52] starts to

[01:50:53] think

[01:50:53] maybe he

[01:50:55] should be

[01:50:55] sheriff

[01:50:56] like

[01:50:56] Khan

[01:50:57] is now

[01:50:57] sheriff

[01:50:58] and he's

[01:50:58] just

[01:50:58] corrupt

[01:50:59] Bullock

[01:50:59] sees it

[01:51:00] and gets

[01:51:01] really angry

[01:51:01] and rips

[01:51:02] his badge

[01:51:03] down

[01:51:03] and Tom

[01:51:03] Nuttall

[01:51:04] Tom

[01:51:05] Nuttall

[01:51:05] I appreciated

[01:51:06] more going

[01:51:07] back into

[01:51:07] this because

[01:51:08] he had a lot

[01:51:08] of good

[01:51:08] lines

[01:51:09] in fact

[01:51:10] he's the

[01:51:11] owner of

[01:51:11] an AMB

[01:51:12] but like

[01:51:13] he had

[01:51:13] helped

[01:51:14] Khan

[01:51:14] get the

[01:51:15] job

[01:51:15] and then

[01:51:15] when he

[01:51:16] sees him

[01:51:16] doing this

[01:51:17] he's like

[01:51:18] leave it

[01:51:18] there

[01:51:18] you bought

[01:51:19] out

[01:51:19] son of a

[01:51:20] bitch

[01:51:20] then Seth

[01:51:21] wants to

[01:51:22] get Dan

[01:51:23] and Al

[01:51:24] to kill

[01:51:26] Alma's father

[01:51:28] because he's

[01:51:28] extorting his

[01:51:30] daughter

[01:51:30] he probably

[01:51:31] raped his

[01:51:32] daughter

[01:51:32] or definitely

[01:51:33] I think we

[01:51:34] learn

[01:51:34] and so

[01:51:35] he's basically

[01:51:36] passive aggressively

[01:51:37] trying to get

[01:51:38] them to do

[01:51:39] that

[01:51:39] and then

[01:51:40] when Dan

[01:51:40] tries to

[01:51:41] be like

[01:51:41] so just

[01:51:41] so I

[01:51:42] have this

[01:51:42] clear

[01:51:42] you want

[01:51:43] an accident

[01:51:44] and then

[01:51:44] he has the

[01:51:45] nerve to say

[01:51:46] I don't

[01:51:46] swim in that

[01:51:47] shit

[01:51:48] to Dan

[01:51:49] and then

[01:51:49] Dan has

[01:51:50] this great

[01:51:50] line

[01:51:51] after that

[01:51:52] I would have

[01:51:52] put this

[01:51:52] in best

[01:51:53] quote

[01:51:53] but like

[01:51:54] I knew

[01:51:54] I was going

[01:51:55] to talk

[01:51:55] about it

[01:51:55] here

[01:51:55] he says

[01:51:56] he looks

[01:51:57] at the

[01:51:57] badge

[01:51:57] and he

[01:51:58] says

[01:51:58] you should

[01:51:59] pin that

[01:51:59] on your

[01:51:59] chest

[01:52:00] you're

[01:52:01] hypocrite

[01:52:01] enough

[01:52:01] to wear

[01:52:02] it

[01:52:02] so good

[01:52:04] so good

[01:52:05] I also

[01:52:06] love

[01:52:06] when he

[01:52:07] goes to

[01:52:07] Saul

[01:52:07] and says

[01:52:08] what kind

[01:52:09] of man

[01:52:09] have I

[01:52:09] become

[01:52:10] and Saul

[01:52:11] says

[01:52:11] I don't

[01:52:12] day ain't

[01:52:12] fucking

[01:52:12] over

[01:52:15] another bit

[01:52:15] of wisdom

[01:52:16] yeah

[01:52:17] we have

[01:52:18] the tragic

[01:52:19] death

[01:52:19] of magistrate

[01:52:20] Claggett

[01:52:21] at the hands

[01:52:21] of your

[01:52:22] boy

[01:52:22] Silas

[01:52:23] and then

[01:52:24] this is

[01:52:24] yeah

[01:52:25] Al

[01:52:25] killing

[01:52:26] the reverend

[01:52:26] because nobody

[01:52:27] else would

[01:52:28] I love

[01:52:29] when the

[01:52:29] general

[01:52:30] tells Bullock

[01:52:31] we all

[01:52:31] have bloody

[01:52:32] thoughts

[01:52:32] the general

[01:52:34] yeah

[01:52:34] it's dinner

[01:52:35] in the

[01:52:36] oh the

[01:52:36] actual general

[01:52:37] that's coming

[01:52:38] in

[01:52:38] not

[01:52:38] no no no

[01:52:39] sorry

[01:52:39] not the

[01:52:40] general

[01:52:40] yeah

[01:52:40] general

[01:52:41] crook

[01:52:41] yeah

[01:52:42] and he

[01:52:43] just says

[01:52:43] we all

[01:52:43] have bloody

[01:52:44] thoughts

[01:52:44] and you

[01:52:46] can tell

[01:52:46] that kind

[01:52:46] of gets

[01:52:47] to Seth

[01:52:47] you know

[01:52:48] this is

[01:52:48] something that

[01:52:49] Seth

[01:52:49] struggles

[01:52:49] with

[01:52:49] yeah

[01:52:50] because he

[01:52:51] judges

[01:52:51] himself

[01:52:52] he feels

[01:52:53] like he's

[01:52:53] not doing

[01:52:53] his duty

[01:52:54] and at

[01:52:55] least the

[01:52:56] general is

[01:52:56] trying to

[01:52:56] say

[01:52:57] it's okay

[01:52:58] to have

[01:52:58] the thoughts

[01:52:59] it's just

[01:52:59] bad for

[01:53:00] it to

[01:53:00] turn into

[01:53:01] action

[01:53:02] so then you

[01:53:03] have the

[01:53:03] scene which

[01:53:04] we already

[01:53:04] talked about

[01:53:04] with the

[01:53:05] mercy

[01:53:05] killing

[01:53:06] yeah

[01:53:06] of the

[01:53:07] reverend

[01:53:08] and then

[01:53:08] it ends

[01:53:09] with

[01:53:10] doc and

[01:53:10] jewel

[01:53:11] dancing

[01:53:11] in her

[01:53:12] new

[01:53:12] boot

[01:53:13] it's like

[01:53:14] ah

[01:53:15] i love

[01:53:16] when jewel

[01:53:16] says

[01:53:17] say i'm

[01:53:18] nimble as a

[01:53:18] forest creature

[01:53:19] yeah

[01:53:19] the doc

[01:53:20] uh

[01:53:20] you're nimble

[01:53:21] as a

[01:53:22] forest creature

[01:53:23] and just

[01:53:23] the way she

[01:53:24] gets him

[01:53:24] on the

[01:53:24] dance floor

[01:53:25] like that's

[01:53:26] the only

[01:53:26] way i'm

[01:53:26] getting out

[01:53:27] there i

[01:53:27] need to

[01:53:27] be like

[01:53:28] cajoled

[01:53:29] it is

[01:53:30] so

[01:53:30] pete

[01:53:30] deadwood

[01:53:31] and

[01:53:31] not that

[01:53:32] the rest

[01:53:32] of it

[01:53:33] isn't

[01:53:33] at ceiling

[01:53:34] but like

[01:53:34] god

[01:53:35] yeah

[01:53:36] and bullock

[01:53:37] just decides

[01:53:38] all right i'm

[01:53:38] gonna be sheriff

[01:53:39] you know that's a

[01:53:40] nice conclusion

[01:53:41] to that arc

[01:53:42] of the season

[01:53:43] like he was

[01:53:43] running away

[01:53:44] from it

[01:53:44] he was

[01:53:45] running away

[01:53:45] from it

[01:53:46] but he

[01:53:46] now realizes

[01:53:47] if i'm gonna

[01:53:47] be in this

[01:53:48] community i

[01:53:49] can't have

[01:53:49] people like

[01:53:49] that doing

[01:53:50] the job

[01:53:51] that i'm

[01:53:51] clearly most

[01:53:52] qualified for

[01:53:53] that's why

[01:53:54] it's so

[01:53:54] interesting that

[01:53:55] the next

[01:53:55] season

[01:53:55] like all

[01:53:57] of that is

[01:53:58] just kind

[01:53:58] of fucked

[01:53:59] right away

[01:54:00] you know

[01:54:01] he takes

[01:54:02] the badge

[01:54:02] off and

[01:54:03] fights al

[01:54:04] when he

[01:54:05] fights him

[01:54:05] so

[01:54:05] and al

[01:54:06] al fights

[01:54:07] dirty

[01:54:07] yep

[01:54:09] i really

[01:54:10] also like

[01:54:10] season two

[01:54:11] finale

[01:54:12] the boy

[01:54:12] the earth

[01:54:13] talks to

[01:54:13] we get

[01:54:14] hearst

[01:54:14] the killing

[01:54:15] of lee

[01:54:15] and i also

[01:54:17] love uh

[01:54:17] mr woo

[01:54:18] the tenth

[01:54:19] episode

[01:54:19] there's so

[01:54:20] many great

[01:54:21] ones

[01:54:21] so many good

[01:54:22] ones

[01:54:22] but it was

[01:54:23] crazy how

[01:54:23] many of my

[01:54:23] favorites were

[01:54:24] season one

[01:54:25] yeah

[01:54:25] so sold

[01:54:26] under sin

[01:54:27] gets the

[01:54:27] ambi

[01:54:27] the ambi

[01:54:28] goes to

[01:54:34] sold

[01:54:34] under sin

[01:54:35] season one

[01:54:36] finale

[01:54:38] all right

[01:54:38] we are down

[01:54:40] to best

[01:54:42] character

[01:54:42] other than

[01:54:43] al

[01:54:43] the ambi

[01:54:45] because al

[01:54:46] if you

[01:54:46] had to

[01:54:46] choose

[01:54:47] the best

[01:54:47] character

[01:54:47] it's not

[01:54:48] close

[01:54:48] al is

[01:54:49] the r

[01:54:49] the s

[01:54:50] the t

[01:54:50] the l

[01:54:50] the n

[01:54:51] and the e

[01:54:51] did you go

[01:54:52] back and look

[01:54:53] at our

[01:54:54] when we did

[01:54:55] this for

[01:54:55] patreon

[01:54:56] no

[01:54:56] i wonder if

[01:54:58] we listed

[01:54:58] them in the

[01:54:59] notes

[01:55:00] yeah

[01:55:00] fuck

[01:55:01] i totally

[01:55:03] forgot

[01:55:03] well i

[01:55:03] didn't forget

[01:55:04] well

[01:55:06] where are you

[01:55:06] going with

[01:55:07] that

[01:55:07] let's just

[01:55:08] say that

[01:55:09] when you

[01:55:09] said it i

[01:55:09] remembered

[01:55:12] this is

[01:55:13] like a

[01:55:14] thing

[01:55:14] when you

[01:55:15] get older

[01:55:16] everything is

[01:55:17] like a

[01:55:18] possibly

[01:55:18] you're going

[01:55:19] crazy

[01:55:20] you know

[01:55:21] you're just

[01:55:22] trying to

[01:55:22] think no

[01:55:22] that's

[01:55:23] am i just

[01:55:23] convincing

[01:55:24] myself

[01:55:24] i do

[01:55:27] remember each

[01:55:28] of our number

[01:55:28] ones so it'll

[01:55:30] be interesting

[01:55:30] to see if

[01:55:31] that changes

[01:55:32] okay let's

[01:55:34] get this done

[01:55:35] then

[01:55:40] i love

[01:55:40] them so

[01:55:41] much

[01:55:41] and uh

[01:55:42] i got

[01:55:43] trixie up

[01:55:43] there

[01:55:43] you got

[01:55:44] trixie

[01:55:44] i of course

[01:55:45] i have

[01:55:45] i love

[01:55:46] trixie

[01:55:46] what do

[01:55:47] you got

[01:55:47] i have

[01:55:49] eb

[01:55:50] eb

[01:55:51] god i

[01:55:52] got eb

[01:55:53] i have

[01:55:54] charlie

[01:55:54] yep i

[01:55:55] have charlie

[01:55:56] so i

[01:55:58] have charlie

[01:55:59] i have doc

[01:56:00] i have jane

[01:56:01] i think jane's

[01:56:03] gotta go on

[01:56:04] it actually

[01:56:04] yeah and

[01:56:06] then dan

[01:56:07] and hearst

[01:56:08] but i think

[01:56:08] actually no

[01:56:09] i'm like

[01:56:10] my five

[01:56:10] are

[01:56:11] eb

[01:56:12] trixie

[01:56:13] doc

[01:56:13] charlie

[01:56:14] and jane

[01:56:15] my exact

[01:56:16] top five

[01:56:17] is it really

[01:56:18] exactly

[01:56:18] unbelievable

[01:56:19] yeah

[01:56:20] i mean

[01:56:20] not in that

[01:56:20] order but

[01:56:21] my exact

[01:56:21] but i

[01:56:22] didn't list

[01:56:22] them really

[01:56:23] okay

[01:56:24] push comes

[01:56:25] to shove

[01:56:25] i would have

[01:56:26] to say

[01:56:27] after this

[01:56:28] watch

[01:56:30] my heart

[01:56:31] says

[01:56:32] what does

[01:56:33] my heart

[01:56:33] say

[01:56:33] i'm torn

[01:56:34] because i

[01:56:35] love doc

[01:56:36] i think doc

[01:56:37] is one of

[01:56:37] the best

[01:56:37] characters

[01:56:38] but i think

[01:56:39] eb

[01:56:39] is just

[01:56:40] the answer

[01:56:41] that i would

[01:56:41] be most

[01:56:42] honest in

[01:56:42] giving

[01:56:42] yeah so

[01:56:44] eb

[01:56:44] jane is a

[01:56:45] close second

[01:56:45] though

[01:56:46] that's what

[01:56:47] i was gonna

[01:56:47] say

[01:56:48] so first of all

[01:56:49] eb was your

[01:56:50] number one

[01:56:50] last time

[01:56:51] yeah

[01:56:51] and trixie

[01:56:52] was my

[01:56:53] number one

[01:56:53] last time

[01:56:54] and i would

[01:56:56] and i would say

[01:56:57] on this

[01:56:57] watch

[01:56:58] i still love

[01:56:59] trixie

[01:56:59] i don't think

[01:57:00] she's number

[01:57:01] one anymore

[01:57:02] i think it's

[01:57:03] between eb and

[01:57:04] jane and i

[01:57:05] almost want to

[01:57:06] go with jane

[01:57:07] even though

[01:57:07] eb is one

[01:57:08] of the most

[01:57:09] entertaining

[01:57:10] characters

[01:57:11] i think there's

[01:57:11] something about

[01:57:12] that performance

[01:57:13] and like she's

[01:57:14] playing kind of

[01:57:15] a drunk

[01:57:15] and you know

[01:57:16] a repressed

[01:57:17] lesbian

[01:57:18] think of how

[01:57:19] many ways

[01:57:20] that could go

[01:57:21] wrong

[01:57:21] and you're just

[01:57:22] your heart

[01:57:23] is always going

[01:57:24] out to her

[01:57:25] and when she

[01:57:25] has someone

[01:57:26] she can care

[01:57:27] for

[01:57:27] like in the

[01:57:27] plague episodes

[01:57:28] or you know

[01:57:29] when she's taking

[01:57:30] care of the reverend

[01:57:31] or when she's

[01:57:32] taking care of

[01:57:33] moe's

[01:57:33] like it's just

[01:57:34] the range of

[01:57:35] that performance

[01:57:36] and that character

[01:57:37] i think is so

[01:57:38] beautiful

[01:57:38] and she is more

[01:57:39] important to

[01:57:40] more of the

[01:57:41] characters

[01:57:42] yeah

[01:57:42] i would have

[01:57:43] zero problem

[01:57:44] with with jane

[01:57:44] i think

[01:57:45] i think it's

[01:57:46] like one

[01:57:47] and one a

[01:57:48] with eb

[01:57:49] for me

[01:57:50] but it's just

[01:57:51] so entertaining

[01:57:52] like if you

[01:57:53] think deadwood

[01:57:53] minus this

[01:57:55] person

[01:57:55] i could do

[01:57:56] minus a lot

[01:57:57] of people

[01:57:58] and still think

[01:57:58] that it is

[01:57:59] deadwood

[01:58:00] i couldn't

[01:58:01] do it

[01:58:01] without jane

[01:58:01] or eb

[01:58:02] no definitely

[01:58:03] not

[01:58:03] or trixie

[01:58:04] really

[01:58:05] or actually

[01:58:06] none of them

[01:58:06] but

[01:58:07] and dan also

[01:58:09] you know

[01:58:09] we haven't talked

[01:58:10] about johnny

[01:58:11] but i love

[01:58:11] johnny

[01:58:12] i know

[01:58:12] there's so many

[01:58:13] people deserving

[01:58:14] of this

[01:58:14] but let's go

[01:58:15] with our gut

[01:58:15] and go

[01:58:16] with jane

[01:58:16] go with jane

[01:58:17] that's interesting

[01:58:18] i'm so glad

[01:58:19] because

[01:58:19] yeah

[01:58:20] she is the best

[01:58:21] eb is the

[01:58:22] most entertaining

[01:58:23] character

[01:58:23] but jane is

[01:58:24] part of the

[01:58:25] beating heart

[01:58:25] of the show

[01:58:26] in a way

[01:58:27] that i think

[01:58:27] eb isn't

[01:58:28] maybe

[01:58:29] uh in terms

[01:58:30] of just

[01:58:31] the heart

[01:58:32] heart

[01:58:32] yeah right

[01:58:33] and what

[01:58:33] like you said

[01:58:34] what a performance

[01:58:35] unbelievable

[01:58:35] incredible

[01:58:36] i don't know

[01:58:37] how these people

[01:58:38] did this

[01:58:38] yeah

[01:58:39] uh robin weiger

[01:58:40] oh sorry

[01:58:41] robin weiger

[01:58:41] paula malkinson

[01:58:42] is trixie

[01:58:43] yeah

[01:58:43] yeah robin weiger

[01:58:45] incredible

[01:58:46] the ambi goes

[01:58:47] to

[01:58:52] best character

[01:58:54] other than now

[01:58:55] jane

[01:58:56] jane

[01:58:57] robin weiger

[01:58:58] she'll give

[01:58:59] a good speech

[01:59:00] i would love

[01:59:01] to be called

[01:59:01] the cocksucker

[01:59:03] by

[01:59:04] i'd love

[01:59:05] to be called

[01:59:06] a fucking

[01:59:06] circus elephant

[01:59:07] yeah

[01:59:08] all right

[01:59:08] well we do

[01:59:09] have one more

[01:59:10] category

[01:59:10] bonus

[01:59:11] bonus category

[01:59:12] bonus category

[01:59:13] no i think

[01:59:14] this is

[01:59:14] like we've

[01:59:15] been building

[01:59:15] to this

[01:59:16] it's true

[01:59:17] this is

[01:59:18] the best

[01:59:19] sex worker

[01:59:20] this is

[01:59:20] something

[01:59:21] we've

[01:59:21] i would say

[01:59:22] this was

[01:59:23] one that

[01:59:23] we have

[01:59:23] been keeping

[01:59:24] up with

[01:59:25] over the

[01:59:25] course of

[01:59:26] the

[01:59:27] ambulators

[01:59:28] we've

[01:59:28] kind of

[01:59:28] highlighted

[01:59:29] who we

[01:59:29] like the

[01:59:30] best

[01:59:30] yeah

[01:59:31] all right

[01:59:31] you want

[01:59:32] to give

[01:59:32] your nominees

[01:59:32] well as

[01:59:34] i was

[01:59:34] thinking

[01:59:34] about who

[01:59:35] to include

[01:59:36] in this

[01:59:37] i realized

[01:59:38] that there

[01:59:39] is no

[01:59:40] number two

[01:59:40] and number

[01:59:40] three for

[01:59:41] me

[01:59:42] i can't

[01:59:44] in all

[01:59:44] honesty

[01:59:45] go anything

[01:59:46] other than

[01:59:47] my favorite

[01:59:48] my my

[01:59:50] wonderful

[01:59:50] the person

[01:59:51] who brings

[01:59:52] light to

[01:59:53] my existence

[01:59:59] lila

[02:00:00] yeah

[02:00:00] no question

[02:00:01] she's the

[02:00:02] winner of

[02:00:03] the ambi

[02:00:04] but we

[02:00:05] can talk

[02:00:05] we can talk

[02:00:06] we can talk

[02:00:06] but lila

[02:00:07] is my

[02:00:08] second one

[02:00:09] is tess

[02:00:10] who was

[02:00:11] kind of

[02:00:11] lila's

[02:00:12] replacement

[02:00:12] and obviously

[02:00:13] trixie's not

[02:00:14] in this

[02:00:14] no no no

[02:00:15] right

[02:00:15] no

[02:00:15] i have

[02:00:16] dolly

[02:00:17] there

[02:00:17] because

[02:00:17] i was

[02:00:18] gonna say

[02:00:18] i think

[02:00:19] i might have

[02:00:19] put dolly

[02:00:20] as my

[02:00:20] number two

[02:00:21] just

[02:00:21] because

[02:00:21] she's

[02:00:21] sweet

[02:00:22] she's

[02:00:22] sweet

[02:00:23] and she

[02:00:23] is very

[02:00:24] important

[02:00:24] now

[02:00:25] i mean

[02:00:25] you see

[02:00:25] that i think

[02:00:26] even

[02:00:26] in

[02:00:28] finale

[02:00:29] like

[02:00:29] she really

[02:00:29] cares about

[02:00:30] him

[02:00:30] and

[02:00:31] i think

[02:00:32] he cares

[02:00:33] about her

[02:00:33] in al's

[02:00:35] way

[02:00:35] you know

[02:00:36] she deserved

[02:00:36] to be in the

[02:00:37] movie

[02:00:37] she didn't

[02:00:38] make my list

[02:00:38] but i have

[02:00:39] to mention

[02:00:39] jen

[02:00:40] who i

[02:00:41] really liked

[02:00:42] oh and let

[02:00:43] me also

[02:00:44] mention

[02:00:44] in

[02:00:44] kristin bell

[02:00:45] what was

[02:00:46] her character's

[02:00:46] name

[02:00:46] yeah

[02:00:47] something

[02:00:48] with an f

[02:00:48] flora

[02:00:50] flora

[02:00:50] yeah

[02:00:51] she was

[02:00:52] good

[02:00:52] that was

[02:00:53] one of the

[02:00:54] rare

[02:00:54] brief appearances

[02:00:55] of a guest

[02:00:56] that like

[02:00:57] actually stuck

[02:00:58] the landing

[02:00:59] yeah

[02:01:00] we could have

[02:01:01] done like

[02:01:01] worst subplots

[02:01:02] that was

[02:01:03] another

[02:01:03] yeah

[02:01:04] that was

[02:01:05] another

[02:01:05] category

[02:01:06] that i

[02:01:06] thought of

[02:01:06] but off

[02:01:07] the top

[02:01:07] of my

[02:01:07] head

[02:01:08] like

[02:01:08] docs

[02:01:09] having

[02:01:10] tuberculosis

[02:01:11] and then

[02:01:11] not having

[02:01:12] not having

[02:01:13] it

[02:01:14] yeah

[02:01:14] obviously

[02:01:15] the herbs

[02:01:15] the herbs

[02:01:16] obviously

[02:01:16] uh

[02:01:17] the weird

[02:01:18] ass guy

[02:01:19] who comes

[02:01:19] in to give

[02:01:20] swatches

[02:01:20] for al's

[02:01:22] broken finger

[02:01:23] i enjoyed

[02:01:24] that one

[02:01:24] just because

[02:01:25] it was like

[02:01:25] lynchian

[02:01:26] and like

[02:01:27] the absurd

[02:01:28] yeah

[02:01:29] you know

[02:01:30] there are a few

[02:01:30] people who

[02:01:31] we haven't

[02:01:32] mentioned and i

[02:01:32] feel like

[02:01:32] people will

[02:01:33] ask us why

[02:01:34] we made no

[02:01:35] mention of

[02:01:36] joanie throughout

[02:01:36] this whole thing

[02:01:37] yeah

[02:01:38] and i gotta say

[02:01:39] like i don't

[02:01:40] regret that

[02:01:41] i mean

[02:01:41] i like joanie

[02:01:43] like she had

[02:01:44] her moments

[02:01:44] and i think

[02:01:46] like it's hard

[02:01:46] to play a

[02:01:47] depressed character

[02:01:48] that's just

[02:01:50] mostly depressed

[02:01:51] and has a kind

[02:01:52] of a slight

[02:01:53] whine to her

[02:01:54] voice every

[02:01:55] time she talks

[02:01:55] but like

[02:01:56] there were

[02:01:57] definitely

[02:01:57] some times

[02:01:58] where i was

[02:01:58] very moved

[02:01:59] by her

[02:01:59] performance

[02:01:59] and her

[02:02:00] character

[02:02:00] no yeah

[02:02:01] she was good

[02:02:02] just the others

[02:02:03] were great

[02:02:03] yeah

[02:02:04] langreech deserves

[02:02:05] a shout out

[02:02:06] because absolutely

[02:02:06] he killed what

[02:02:08] little he was

[02:02:09] given to do

[02:02:09] absolutely

[02:02:10] totally agree

[02:02:11] yeah

[02:02:14] i think

[02:02:14] yeah

[02:02:15] that was a good

[02:02:16] performance

[02:02:17] aunt lou

[02:02:18] i would say

[02:02:19] in the worst

[02:02:19] subplot category

[02:02:21] you could put

[02:02:22] odell's

[02:02:23] not that it was

[02:02:24] a good performance

[02:02:26] it just like

[02:02:26] you know what

[02:02:27] actually one of the

[02:02:28] scenes that i came

[02:02:28] across doing research

[02:02:30] for this is when

[02:02:31] he's with odell

[02:02:32] in the thoroughfare

[02:02:34] and he actually

[02:02:35] starts crying

[02:02:36] because of how

[02:02:37] much of an outcast

[02:02:38] he is

[02:02:38] from the rest

[02:02:39] of the community

[02:02:40] wait who starts

[02:02:41] crying

[02:02:42] hurst

[02:02:43] and he says

[02:02:44] it's so silly

[02:02:45] you know i've

[02:02:45] like i've known

[02:02:46] forever how

[02:02:47] like my fellow

[02:02:48] men will see me

[02:02:50] and like i've

[02:02:50] come to terms

[02:02:51] with that

[02:02:51] and here i am

[02:02:52] crying

[02:02:53] and it struck

[02:02:54] me that's probably

[02:02:54] why he killed

[02:02:55] him

[02:02:55] it's because

[02:02:56] he saw him

[02:02:57] in like

[02:02:57] odell saw him