Episode 295: Guess Who's Coming to Dinner

[00:00:00] Very Bad Wizards is a podcast with a philosopher, my dad, and psychologist Dave Pizarro, having an informal discussion about issues in science and ethics.

[00:00:09] Please note that the discussion contains bad words that I'm not allowed to say, and knowing my dad, some very inappropriate jokes.

[00:00:17] Our songs will all be silenced, but what of it go on singing?

[00:00:33] Welcome to Very Bad Wizards. I'm Tamler Sommers from the University of Houston.

[00:01:22] Dave, this is our Fall Halloween special episode. Or should I not say fall?

[00:01:30] I mean, I feel like you've already alienated a bunch of our listeners. I feel like we should go back and edit out all mention of seasons.

[00:01:37] Yeah. No, I know.

[00:01:38] I feel like it's 294.

[00:01:40] Dave, like they're doing with movies now. They're all just editing out any time anyone says the N-word, even though it's like a…

[00:01:47] Really? They're doing that?

[00:01:48] Yeah. Well, they did that on French Connection.

[00:01:53] Yeah, the French Connection.

[00:01:54] Oh, really?

[00:01:54] Yeah, so they apparently edited out or did some…

[00:01:59] They George Lucas did.

[00:02:00] Exactly. They George Lucas did, yes.

[00:02:02] I was going to say, Menace to Society just wouldn't be the same.

[00:02:05] Yeah, there's a lot of those.

[00:02:09] No, but yeah, so we have to do that any time we mention spring, summer, fall.

[00:02:14] Well, yeah, or winter. Any of them.

[00:02:16] Yeah, any of them.

[00:02:17] Yeah.

[00:02:17] So this… there is a… I guess like a letter to the editor published in Nature by Australian researchers.

[00:02:24] Seasons Missed Greetings, Why Timing Matters in Global Academia.

[00:02:29] Hello from the Southern Hemisphere, where the days are getting longer and temperatures are rising.

[00:02:33] Yet despite the clear signs of spring here, we find ourselves inundated with invitations to events that speak of fall or autumn

[00:02:39] or newsletters announcing workshops that will run this coming winter.

[00:02:42] It leaves us wondering, are we invited at all into this season different from our own?

[00:02:45] So this got dogpiled a little bit on Twitter. I guess rightly so.

[00:02:51] I'm surprised it got published, you know? Like my first response when seeing this was like, one, I didn't think it was real.

[00:02:58] I thought it was parody. But two, like, I don't know, my whole family's from South America, you know, we have the flipped calendar.

[00:03:05] Like, I understand that. But if we're going to be doing inclusivity, don't you think that we should send out announcements in like English and Chinese and Spanish?

[00:03:12] And that that would be a little bit more important.

[00:03:14] But they speak English, so that wouldn't help them, you know?

[00:03:18] No, no, it wouldn't help them.

[00:03:19] It's fucking Australians. Australians, and I love, I think we have a lot of Australian listeners, but as a culture, I'm not your biggest fan.

[00:03:30] It doesn't surprise me that there's a kind of entitlement that comes out of Australia about this.

[00:03:37] Because nobody in South America would ever think to, in a million years, write this letter to nature.

[00:03:43] It could only come from Australia. I don't even think it could come from New Zealand, but maybe it could.

[00:03:47] I don't know. I don't know that.

[00:03:48] Okay, so the most charitable reading of this is that it's not the season naming. It's that people plan it when they're on vacation, or vice versa, or whatever. Like, that the breaks are different. And so when people are like, oh, let's conveniently plan this conference while we're on break, or when we're not on break, or whatever, that that actually gets it wrong. But that would be a different framing.

[00:04:08] And that's true for everybody. Like, fixing what you call the thing, you know, wouldn't matter. And I mean, that is an issue. Like, so many conferences happen in the summer, that isn't summer for the people in the Southern Hemisphere. Like, yeah, complain about that. And, you know, we're still not going to do it, because we have way more people. And you have no leverage.

[00:04:30] Let's go back to calling it Christmas break, instead of winter break, I think is what they're saying.

[00:04:33] Yeah, you know.

[00:04:34] Christmas break, yeah, because it's still Christmas for them. Do they even have Halloween? Like, how many countries have Halloween?

[00:04:40] I don't know. I know that in South America, it's become adopted, but very much like recently. So like, they'll actually do help, but nowhere like this. Nowhere like it is here. So I actually don't know if they have it. Even in Europe, I don't even know.

[00:04:52] Yeah, I don't either. Like, I don't know, maybe in Holland, they dress up like Svarta Pete.

[00:04:58] They actually have a different one for Halloween. It's Mexican Jose.

[00:05:01] Right, right.

[00:05:03] The shoe polish is a little bit lighter. We've alienated so many listeners already. This wasn't even our opening topic.

[00:05:11] The Dutch start out alienated, though. So if anything, they probably respect this.

[00:05:17] So today we're going to do in our second segment, because this is a fall or spring Halloween episode special, we're going to do stone cold horror classic, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[00:05:33] Chainsaw, by the way. It's not Chainsaw. It's the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[00:05:39] Oh, is it?

[00:05:39] Yeah.

[00:05:39] I never even noticed that. Holy shit.

[00:05:41] One of the tiny little ways that this movie just fucks with you, you know?

[00:05:45] Yeah.

[00:05:45] Right.

[00:05:46] But first.

[00:05:47] But first.

[00:05:49] We're going to take a test.

[00:05:50] This is, you know, one of our best things is when we find something to take in real time with each other, like an online quiz of some sort.

[00:05:57] And in this case, it comes from a friend of the podcast.

[00:06:02] Yeah.

[00:06:03] At least frequently mentioned on the podcast.

[00:06:06] Adam Mastriani, who tweeted not too long ago.

[00:06:09] I saw this from Yoel retweeting it.

[00:06:11] A new study out today.

[00:06:12] We had a bunch of Democrats and Republicans do an ideological Turing test.

[00:06:17] People either portrayed themselves or pretended to be from the opposite party.

[00:06:21] And then another group tried to pick out the real partisans from the fake ones.

[00:06:25] So they either portrayed just themselves and wrote, you know, what they would actually write or they tried to be do that from the opposing perspective.

[00:06:33] So now he has a database of people who are faking it and people who are doing the same thing.

[00:06:37] So what we're going to do is go through a bunch of statements that will either be real statements.

[00:06:42] In other words, Democrats claiming to be Democrats and Republicans claiming to be Republicans.

[00:06:46] Or they'll be fake statements.

[00:06:48] Democrats claiming to be Republicans or Republicans claiming to be Democrats.

[00:06:51] And will the judgment that we have to make is real or fake?

[00:06:53] Yeah.

[00:06:54] All right.

[00:06:54] I'll read the first one.

[00:06:56] Following statement was written based on the prompt.

[00:06:59] I'm a Republican because I am a Republican because I cannot stand what the Democratic Party stands for.

[00:07:06] The Democratic Party has become so far left wing and liberal that it makes me sick.

[00:07:11] They want to let all the illegals come into the country and change the culture of this nation.

[00:07:16] That's why I identify with the Republican Party.

[00:07:19] I believe the Republican Party cares about the middle class of which I am a part of.

[00:07:24] This is the party that has given the most tax breaks to the middle class.

[00:07:28] And they want to uphold the laws of this nation when it comes to immigration.

[00:07:34] What do you think?

[00:07:35] My feeling is fake.

[00:07:37] It seems weird that a Republican says that the Democrats have become so far left wing and liberal.

[00:07:43] I feel like they would make more of a positive claim.

[00:07:45] But the other thing is that they said I identify with their own party.

[00:07:48] That this is why I identify.

[00:07:51] Once they said that.

[00:07:52] I actually think they do complain about how left, even though it's not at all true, the Democratic Party has gone more and more to the right.

[00:08:01] They still complain about it going to the left.

[00:08:03] I thought, like you, it was fake with the identify with the Republican Party.

[00:08:09] But when they said I believe the Republican Party cares about the middle class of which I am a part of.

[00:08:14] Like, are they really going to make it seem like, oh, they're they also don't understand grammar, too?

[00:08:23] Oh, you got to give people a break.

[00:08:25] These are random Internet people.

[00:08:26] These are not like universities.

[00:08:28] But I'm saying, like, if you're the Democrat faking it or maybe he just made the mistake.

[00:08:33] Yeah.

[00:08:33] All right.

[00:08:34] Fake.

[00:08:34] So fake.

[00:08:35] I say fake.

[00:08:35] OK, you're up.

[00:08:36] OK, I'm a Republican because I'm a Republican because I believe that the traditional ways of our society are essential for Americans to prosper and find salvation in the Lord.

[00:08:46] Too many people nowadays have abandoned the church and behave godlessly.

[00:08:50] Gays marrying gays, men turning into girls, killing babies.

[00:08:53] America has strayed from the path and we need to fix our country before it is too late.

[00:08:57] We need representatives who will take us back to our golden ages of the 50s through 80s.

[00:09:01] When business was booming, we had control over the morality of the people and life was prosperous for everyone.

[00:09:07] I just can't in good conscience vote Democrat when they willingly steer our country toward immorality.

[00:09:12] That seems fake to me.

[00:09:15] Me too.

[00:09:15] You think it's just fake.

[00:09:17] Yeah.

[00:09:17] Yeah.

[00:09:17] All right.

[00:09:18] You could tell, though, then that they got into it.

[00:09:22] Gays marrying gays, men turning into girls like they felt like the siren call.

[00:09:29] Yeah, that's right.

[00:09:30] It was fake.

[00:09:33] All right.

[00:09:34] I'm up.

[00:09:35] Again, I'm a Republican because I don't believe forcing those who have worked hard for their money to pay an exorbitant amount for taxes.

[00:09:43] I believe in an individual's right to have a gun in their home or concealed on their person because it can be important to their physical safety.

[00:09:49] I also believe there should be larger restrictions and potentially even a ban on abortion because life begins at conception.

[00:09:55] And by allowing these babies to be aborted, we are killing future children, doctor, lawyers, people who could contribute to society and who don't have a say in whether they'll get to live or die.

[00:10:05] They should have a right to live a life too.

[00:10:07] That to me is either real or it's somebody who's really struggling with.

[00:10:11] I think it's real or somebody who's really actually good at this task.

[00:10:15] Yeah.

[00:10:15] Like we could be totally wrong about all of these, but this seems to me authentic.

[00:10:19] And so if it is fake, like they did a good job.

[00:10:21] Yeah.

[00:10:22] Okay.

[00:10:22] I am a Democrat because I believe in the views established by their democracy.

[00:10:28] Their democracy.

[00:10:30] They believe in the better good for Americans in our society today.

[00:10:34] They help to regulate laws that will benefit the people through health insurance, protecting rights of individuals and trying to decrease federal spending, increase job availability and helping ones in poverty.

[00:10:43] They are against building the wall to keep immigrants out.

[00:10:46] They are about everyone getting a chance at a better life, immigrant or not.

[00:10:49] They stand united, whereas Republicans want to continue to divide people.

[00:10:53] Republicans want to only help the rich get richer.

[00:10:57] I mean, like it's got to be fake, right?

[00:11:00] Like they say they and it's like, I thought so too.

[00:11:03] But then as we kept running it, I was like, oh, they're just talking about the party.

[00:11:07] Yeah.

[00:11:08] Everyone getting a chance at a better life, immigrant or not.

[00:11:12] They stand united, whereas Republicans.

[00:11:14] Yeah.

[00:11:15] No, my gut still says fake.

[00:11:17] Okay.

[00:11:17] They're just kind of good at the task.

[00:11:19] Yeah.

[00:11:19] But what do you think?

[00:11:20] I'm really torn about this, but I'll say fake too.

[00:11:23] If that's like I could go – if you said felt strongly about real, I would want to do that.

[00:11:27] Okay.

[00:11:28] Okay, fake.

[00:11:29] I am a Republican because I consider myself as very cultural and traditional.

[00:11:34] I think what makes us human is our moral decadence.

[00:11:37] And if we don't uphold morality, we are no different from animals.

[00:11:42] What's the pool for this?

[00:11:44] Do you remember?

[00:11:45] They're probably just people.

[00:11:46] I don't know.

[00:11:47] Amtrak or something?

[00:11:49] Yeah, Amtrak.

[00:11:49] These are Amtrak.

[00:11:50] Amtrak.

[00:11:50] Okay.

[00:11:51] The world is competitive and I feel only the strongest should survive.

[00:11:55] Even great books like the Bible and the Koran acknowledges that the world belongs to the brave and shuns cowardice.

[00:12:01] If this is a Republican, you know, that's nice.

[00:12:04] There's no Islamophobia here.

[00:12:07] Great books.

[00:12:08] I feel giving aides to countries who are impoverished other than those who have suffered conflicts in one way or the other is just a way of encouraging weakness and those resources should be diverted into nation building and improving our national security.

[00:12:25] So he's against giving all that money to Israel, I guess.

[00:12:28] I also think we should live as our rightful place in the global economy because we are giants and we should act like one.

[00:12:35] I am Republican and I am proud and brave.

[00:12:39] Tough one.

[00:12:40] It's just slightly incoherent, you know?

[00:12:43] Yeah.

[00:12:44] What makes us human is our morale decadence.

[00:12:47] Yeah.

[00:12:47] I'm going to say real.

[00:12:48] Like, I don't mean this as any like insult to Republicans, but what do you think?

[00:12:54] Yeah.

[00:12:54] I'd say real.

[00:12:55] Okay.

[00:12:56] I'm a Republican because I care more than most about where this country is going.

[00:13:00] I, like many others, fully support a return to older, more traditional values.

[00:13:04] I think we all know that we need to go back to a time when you could feel secure in your own home,

[00:13:08] a time when people knew their neighbors and it was safe to let your kids play unsupervised in the neighborhoods.

[00:13:13] I'm proud to be a Republican because I believe that my party understands the importance of protecting both the sanctity of marriage and the lives of the unborn.

[00:13:21] Real?

[00:13:23] Oh, man.

[00:13:24] It's hard because I was going to say real until the very end, the sanctity of marriage and the lives of the unborn.

[00:13:30] It sounds like a way a Democrat would sum up what Republicans believe.

[00:13:33] But maybe, maybe that's just, yeah, we can go real.

[00:13:36] Let's go real.

[00:13:37] All right.

[00:13:38] I am a Republican because I believe in the right to bear many arms and use that right to protect my family, home, and property.

[00:13:46] I believe in pro-choice and teaching proper sex education in schools.

[00:13:51] That's confusing.

[00:13:52] Yeah.

[00:13:53] There you go.

[00:13:53] I believe more than anything people need a fucking tougher skin and stop with this.

[00:13:58] Those words hurt me for no reason.

[00:14:00] I don't like this rule change it now and give me an award for showing up.

[00:14:05] Some people never got told no and it shows.

[00:14:08] Last is be who you want.

[00:14:10] I support you.

[00:14:11] Just please pick one of two genders.

[00:14:16] This is from the awesome party.

[00:14:19] Oh, I didn't know you were so –

[00:14:21] Like I don't endorse his policy.

[00:14:25] This is real, right?

[00:14:26] I think it's fake.

[00:14:29] Oh, you do?

[00:14:29] Like I believe in pro-choice and teaching proper sex education in school.

[00:14:34] Maybe it's true.

[00:14:34] Well, that's why I think –

[00:14:35] Yeah.

[00:14:35] Yeah.

[00:14:36] I think it's like, look, I'm a Republican.

[00:14:37] Don't get me wrong.

[00:14:38] I'm not like one of those pro-life students.

[00:14:39] Right.

[00:14:39] I'm more of the libertarian one that's also just a little transphobic even though there's nothing about libertarians.

[00:14:45] I support you.

[00:14:46] Just pick one.

[00:14:47] Yeah.

[00:14:47] You can pick whichever one you want.

[00:14:50] Out of two.

[00:14:50] Yeah.

[00:14:51] Out of two.

[00:14:51] Yes.

[00:14:53] So, yeah.

[00:14:54] I guess I'm going to totally say real.

[00:14:57] I'm a Democrat because I believe the world is a village.

[00:15:02] I believe all countries should look out for the needs of each other regardless of what country they're a citizen of.

[00:15:08] I believe people are all humans and so the world should be, in these modern times, caring of humans and not the labels they carry.

[00:15:14] Democrats care about the less fortunate and see people as individual beings aside from whatever actions they have done in the past.

[00:15:20] Life should not be a struggle.

[00:15:21] It should be a celebration of discovery and adventure.

[00:15:24] Life is what you make it.

[00:15:26] I'm going to say real.

[00:15:27] Yeah.

[00:15:28] That's my gut too.

[00:15:29] Again, should join the other guy in the awesome party.

[00:15:33] You know.

[00:15:34] It's a village.

[00:15:35] Have you ever thought about the world as like a global village?

[00:15:39] I definitely have because we did some shit called global village when I was in high school.

[00:15:44] It takes a village.

[00:15:45] Exactly.

[00:15:46] All right.

[00:15:47] I am a Democrat.

[00:15:48] How many are these?

[00:15:49] Ten.

[00:15:50] There were ten.

[00:15:50] I am a Democrat because it seems the Democrats have always been on the side of the ordinary, hardworking American.

[00:15:57] They advocate for a fully funded social security system which protects the elderly and infirm.

[00:16:02] They advocate for a robust Medicare and Medicaid system so the people will not need to worry about paying for medications if they are elderly or poor.

[00:16:11] They support revising the immigration system but do not support separating children from their parents or sending children who were born in this country to their parents' home country which they have never visited.

[00:16:21] And they understand that climate change exists.

[00:16:24] The environment must be protected.

[00:16:26] And if there is going to be a tax break, it should go to working Americans and not to the richest ones.

[00:16:32] Real.

[00:16:32] Let me just say.

[00:16:33] What do you think?

[00:16:34] I know.

[00:16:35] I'm being counterintuitive here.

[00:16:36] I think this one's totally fake.

[00:16:37] You do?

[00:16:38] Yeah.

[00:16:39] Then this person just is a Democrat at heart.

[00:16:41] Or no, it just knows what a Democrat would say.

[00:16:43] Like one of the things we should have done is try to write a genuine one ourselves.

[00:16:47] Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:47] Although it wouldn't make for good air because I think we could.

[00:16:49] But like I'm also not either one of those.

[00:16:51] Yeah.

[00:16:52] I'm fine with you saying.

[00:16:53] I'm just going to make a – I'm pre-registering mine just so that I remember.

[00:16:55] As you want to say fake, I'm going to say real.

[00:16:58] Okay.

[00:16:58] I'm a Democrat because I feel the Democratic Party has the best interests in mind for our country.

[00:17:02] Being a Democrat means that I believe that what has made our country great are the people who worked hard.

[00:17:08] Immigrants, for example, have worked very hard and for do little to help make this country great.

[00:17:14] And for little, I think.

[00:17:16] Okay.

[00:17:16] And for little – oh, for little to help make this country great.

[00:17:18] It takes all kinds of people from all kinds of backgrounds working together to achieve greatness for our country.

[00:17:23] Being a Democrat also means that I believe those from lower socioeconomic backgrounds can rise above their circumstances to achieve many things like a college education.

[00:17:31] Being a Democrat means that I see males and females as equals and should be treated as such.

[00:17:36] For example, equal pay for equal work.

[00:17:37] Being a Democrat, I have a great interest in ensuring equality for all Americans, not just a privileged few.

[00:17:43] What do you think here?

[00:17:44] Do you think this is –

[00:17:45] I think this one's real.

[00:17:47] I think it's real too, but I think I'm just falling for them all now.

[00:17:50] Yeah.

[00:17:50] You know, we should have said that the results of the study shows that people are no better than chance.

[00:17:55] So that means they're not –

[00:17:56] Really?

[00:17:56] Have to be –

[00:17:57] Do you think –

[00:17:57] I think we're going to do okay, but I don't know.

[00:17:59] I'm pre-registering that we get six out of ten.

[00:18:01] I'll say seven out of ten.

[00:18:03] Okay.

[00:18:05] May –

[00:18:05] Oh, look.

[00:18:06] Two options.

[00:18:07] Oh, no.

[00:18:07] There's another.

[00:18:17] It hasn't been updated.

[00:18:19] Oh, yeah.

[00:18:19] It hasn't been updated.

[00:18:20] All right.

[00:18:21] Ready?

[00:18:22] Yeah.

[00:18:23] Oh, my God.

[00:18:25] We got –

[00:18:25] Whoa.

[00:18:26] Shit.

[00:18:27] Okay.

[00:18:28] So we got three out of ten.

[00:18:30] We were worse than chance.

[00:18:32] That's unbelievable.

[00:18:33] If we had just flipped a coin, we probably would have done better.

[00:18:36] Yeah.

[00:18:37] Okay.

[00:18:38] I am a Democrat.

[00:18:39] That first one –

[00:18:40] They believe in the better good.

[00:18:42] That one was actually real.

[00:18:44] We said fake.

[00:18:45] Fake.

[00:18:45] Okay.

[00:18:45] We got this one right.

[00:18:47] Isn't this the one that we disagreed about?

[00:18:49] They support revising an immigration system but do not support separating children from their parents.

[00:18:54] Yeah.

[00:18:54] This is the one.

[00:18:55] So I was right about that.

[00:18:56] Are these out of order?

[00:18:56] These are out of order.

[00:18:57] Yeah.

[00:18:57] All right.

[00:18:58] So it was real.

[00:18:58] You were right then.

[00:18:59] Okay.

[00:19:00] We got this one right about Republicans, gays marrying gays, men turning into girls, killing babies.

[00:19:06] That was definitely fake.

[00:19:07] We were on that at least.

[00:19:09] The Bible and the Koran one was fake.

[00:19:12] We should have known.

[00:19:13] Yeah.

[00:19:13] Nobody would say the Bible and the Koran.

[00:19:14] Right.

[00:19:15] But it's interesting that a Democrat thought that that would be what a Republican would say.

[00:19:20] I mean that's what's a little confusing about this.

[00:19:22] I don't believe in forcing those who have worked hard for their money to pay more for taxes.

[00:19:26] We said that was real.

[00:19:27] Yeah.

[00:19:28] And it was fake.

[00:19:29] They should have a right to life too, the people.

[00:19:32] Yeah.

[00:19:32] So yeah, that was kind of our bad.

[00:19:35] Cannot stand what the Democratic Party stands for.

[00:19:37] This one I felt strongly was fake.

[00:19:39] Yeah.

[00:19:39] Yeah.

[00:19:39] And it was real.

[00:19:41] Yeah.

[00:19:41] They were left-wing and liberal.

[00:19:42] Yeah.

[00:19:42] That was like I thought it was fake until that sentence of the two ofs.

[00:19:46] And then I thought that would be too much.

[00:19:49] Yeah.

[00:19:49] Right.

[00:19:50] And then we got that last one right.

[00:19:51] I believe the right to bear many arms and use the – and the please pick one of two genders.

[00:19:57] Yeah.

[00:19:58] It's just a libertarian.

[00:20:00] Yeah.

[00:20:00] Yeah.

[00:20:00] All right.

[00:20:01] So we did very badly.

[00:20:03] We did very poorly.

[00:20:04] What is this like actually measuring?

[00:20:06] I haven't read his article, so I'm not sure.

[00:20:07] I don't know.

[00:20:08] I didn't either.

[00:20:09] But nice to know we're worse than the average person.

[00:20:12] Yeah.

[00:20:12] I don't know if it's because we're dumb.

[00:20:14] We gave one side too much credit.

[00:20:17] We got in our head too much, man.

[00:20:18] That's it.

[00:20:19] That's it.

[00:20:20] Totally.

[00:20:21] All right.

[00:20:22] Speaking of getting into someone's head but more literally, we'll be right back to talk about the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[00:21:29] Welcome back to our very special Halloween episode of Very Bad Wizards.

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[00:24:35] All right, let's get to the main segment.

[00:24:38] We're going to talk about the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[00:24:42] Like I said, this is our first Halloween episode.

[00:24:44] We don't even need to talk about what season that's in.

[00:24:47] It's just a Halloween episode.

[00:24:50] It's true.

[00:24:51] It's true.

[00:24:51] So Texas Chainsaw Massacre, this is directed by Toby Hooper, who is a Texas native.

[00:24:57] He went to the University of Texas for a bit to their film program that my daughter is now attending.

[00:25:03] But I don't think he finished.

[00:25:05] But he was there during that shooting, the mass shooting at the Watchtower at UT.

[00:25:11] Apparently, he was there and maybe influenced a kind of sensibility that he would take to a movie like this.

[00:25:19] Texas Chainsaw is his second feature.

[00:25:22] He also directed Poltergeist.

[00:25:25] Have you seen Poltergeist?

[00:25:27] Yeah, way back in the day.

[00:25:29] Yeah, that fucked me up as a kid, that movie.

[00:25:32] Me too, for sure.

[00:25:33] Like the clown's there and then the clown's not there.

[00:25:36] I haven't seen it.

[00:25:38] I think I saw it in college again and thought it was great.

[00:25:40] But there's some dispute about whether Spielberg really directed it or what his level of involvement is.

[00:25:47] That's a whole controversy.

[00:25:49] I like to think that he did most of it.

[00:25:52] It has a similar kind of like gritty feel, even though it's much more commercial.

[00:25:57] Also did the sequel to Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which I haven't seen, but I've heard is good in a completely different way.

[00:26:02] It's just more comic than the first one.

[00:26:06] And some other horror movies.

[00:26:07] But nothing ever matched like the success and the notoriety of the first Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[00:26:14] Like he kind of peaked when he did that.

[00:26:17] I guess that happens to some directors.

[00:26:19] Yeah.

[00:26:19] So let me give a brief plot summary.

[00:26:22] We're in 1973, small town, Texas.

[00:26:26] A close family of artists, craftsmen and recyclers have their home invaded by hippies and defend their way of life against them in the only way they can.

[00:26:40] Where did you get that?

[00:26:41] I just made it up.

[00:26:43] But honestly, like when I rewatched this the last time, like I kind of felt like bad for them, you know, like in a way that I hadn't really the other couple of times that I've seen this.

[00:26:57] So that just seems to me like a good description of the movie.

[00:27:01] Like they're just minding their own business.

[00:27:03] And all of a sudden these hippies just uninvited into their house.

[00:27:09] And so they got to defend it.

[00:27:10] You know, like the Jewy bus driver, you know, the driver of the.

[00:27:15] Oh, yeah.

[00:27:15] The nerd.

[00:27:16] The nerd.

[00:27:18] The Jew nerd, if you want to put it that way.

[00:27:21] And then the cripple.

[00:27:22] Well, we got to talk about Franklin because one of the things about this that some people think and we definitely like I would watch it with Jen on Saturday.

[00:27:30] And I was like, this is Scooby Doo.

[00:27:33] Right.

[00:27:33] Like this is just.

[00:27:34] That's why you texted me about Casey Kasem.

[00:27:36] Right.

[00:27:37] So I found out that Casey Kasem did the voice of Scooby Doo.

[00:27:40] I had no idea.

[00:27:42] I mean, I'm shaggy.

[00:27:43] Right.

[00:27:43] Of course.

[00:27:43] I'm shaggy.

[00:27:44] I had no idea.

[00:27:45] You knew that, though.

[00:27:46] Yeah.

[00:27:47] Yeah, I did.

[00:27:47] Yeah.

[00:27:48] It's you know, he's a Lebanese American and I'm Lebanese, too.

[00:27:51] So I know my people.

[00:27:52] But yeah, no, I was telling you, I'm also just like I watch documentaries on voiceover actors and Casey Kasem is legendary for his shag.

[00:28:00] And that's like and it makes sense.

[00:28:02] Like voice wise, it totally makes sense.

[00:28:04] I just didn't think Casey Kasem did that kind of thing.

[00:28:06] I know.

[00:28:08] So if this is Scooby Doo, because it does have the blonde girl, the brunette girl, the blonde guy, the kind of nerdier brunette guy.

[00:28:17] Like Franklin is like some.

[00:28:19] Scooby.

[00:28:20] He's Scooby.

[00:28:20] But also shaggy.

[00:28:23] Like he's annoying like shaggy, you know, like.

[00:28:26] Zoid.

[00:28:28] We've barely talked about it.

[00:28:29] And I know you hadn't seen it before I suggested it.

[00:28:33] So I'm on with bated breath.

[00:28:35] I ask, what did you think of this movie?

[00:28:37] OK, my background is I don't watch horror movies very often.

[00:28:41] Like I've seen very few.

[00:28:43] I went into it a little bit like worried that I'm naive to the genre.

[00:28:46] So like what, you know, can I tell from a good horror movie or whatever?

[00:28:49] And I thought it was amazing.

[00:28:51] I mean, I'm like I watched it twice today and I reminded myself why I don't watch horror movies.

[00:28:57] Like before we started recording, like I was actually like shook up.

[00:29:01] And I was actually impressed.

[00:29:04] Like I knew it was kind of exploitation and low budget.

[00:29:06] But I didn't realize like the mastery of the shots that I would see, like the camera movement and the cuts and the real feeling of terror.

[00:29:16] I tried to read not that much about it.

[00:29:18] And I was like, well, this seems like really genre defining.

[00:29:21] Like, I guess if there was nothing before it.

[00:29:23] Completely.

[00:29:24] It sets the template.

[00:29:25] Like, you know.

[00:29:26] And then I was like, we're just did everybody rightfully think of Michael Myers and Jason as just blatant ripoffs of this stuff?

[00:29:33] I think it was genre, you know, like and I think it's not like this was the only movie like this, but certainly the biggest.

[00:29:40] But this definitely like just set in stone.

[00:29:42] The final girl, the crazy murderer with the fucked up mask.

[00:29:47] Totally genre defining, as you say, like slasher movie.

[00:29:50] Yeah.

[00:29:50] Night of the Living Dead was like suspense like that, but just different.

[00:29:54] A different kind of movie.

[00:29:55] A different kind of like a zombie movie.

[00:29:56] Like it was genre defining for a different genre.

[00:29:59] I think this is genre defining for the slasher movie.

[00:30:02] The teenagers, the final girl, the mask.

[00:30:05] But it's just better than all of them, I think.

[00:30:07] Yeah.

[00:30:07] It's just one of those cases where doing more with less really pays off.

[00:30:11] Yeah.

[00:30:11] Yeah.

[00:30:12] I mean, you have like maybe the most iconic killer, Leatherface, you know, which is like he has a mask made of like faces of people that he's skinned before.

[00:30:22] And it's like a violent, crazy movie.

[00:30:26] But like to me, like what elevates it is it captures something about this is going to sound very cliche, but like the zeitgeist of America in like the early 70s.

[00:30:36] Last stages of Vietnam, economic crisis, gas crisis, all the stuff in the 60s.

[00:30:42] And a lot of it was bullshit, if not all of it.

[00:30:45] But, you know, like free love, civil rights, peace and harmony.

[00:30:49] That's all been like obliterated, like like assassinated, you might say.

[00:30:54] And yeah, you're just left with just like just pure chaos, you know, not even knowing what being human is.

[00:31:03] And yeah, just a sense that the country is completely losing its grip.

[00:31:07] Like this has been like maybe the booming time for serial killers at that time.

[00:31:11] You have Manson has just happened as they're filming like the first day, this series of murders in Houston that actually where the guy lived like five minute walk away from my house.

[00:31:23] He killed 28 people in Houston.

[00:31:25] So all of that is now being discovered.

[00:31:28] And it's based on, in part, the same killer who the psycho killer is based on.

[00:31:34] Ed Gain.

[00:31:35] Yeah, Ed Gain.

[00:31:36] Yeah.

[00:31:36] But like completely made up in the details of it.

[00:31:39] And I think like also between this and Deliverance, which came out in 1972, just completely deromanticizes the American rural South.

[00:31:52] You know, like there's now it's just a fun house of just grotesquerie.

[00:31:58] And that's in the air too.

[00:32:01] Like you can't move to a place where people are hospitable and more wholesome or something like that.

[00:32:07] No, this is what that is.

[00:32:09] Right.

[00:32:09] You might be killed by some, some boo-rattling motherfucker might like take you out, you know.

[00:32:14] Just like it's an insane movie.

[00:32:16] You feel like you're going insane as you watch it.

[00:32:19] By the buildup of, you know, the dinner scene.

[00:32:22] Yeah.

[00:32:22] I was going crazy.

[00:32:23] Yeah.

[00:32:24] And then the dinner scene, like, I don't know if you said like the second time, if it was more comic than the first time.

[00:32:29] Because if.

[00:32:29] I mean, it's comically grotesque.

[00:32:31] Like you said the word grotesquery.

[00:32:32] Like that's exactly what I was feeling.

[00:32:34] Like it's, yeah.

[00:32:36] It borders on campy.

[00:32:37] I wasn't quite laughing yet.

[00:32:39] Maybe that would take a few more.

[00:32:40] A few more viewings.

[00:32:41] Yeah.

[00:32:42] Yeah.

[00:32:43] And that's the thing about it.

[00:32:44] Because whatever comic elements of it, it has, it requires multiple viewings to kind of get there.

[00:32:51] At least if you're not seasoned horror movie watchers, like, and neither of us are.

[00:32:56] Stanley Kubrick famously loved this movie.

[00:33:00] Thought it was great.

[00:33:01] And the last time we did a horror movie, it was like a civilized horror movie.

[00:33:05] What did we do?

[00:33:06] The Shining.

[00:33:07] Right.

[00:33:07] Oh, yeah.

[00:33:08] Like with butlers and bartenders and like roaring 20s flapper parties, you know.

[00:33:14] Like this is so different from that.

[00:33:16] Like it's just grimy.

[00:33:17] It's sweaty.

[00:33:18] It's like, and it's macabre, you know, that is the word that came to mind too.

[00:33:22] Like it's gruesome, but then it, yeah, it has this element of kind of other worldliness too.

[00:33:28] You know, a lot of people say that it's actually less gore than you think.

[00:33:33] Which is true.

[00:33:34] It's at least restrained.

[00:33:36] It's like more, way more restrained than the shit that came afterwards where it was like unbridled slasher.

[00:33:42] But just in terms of blood, like there's not that much blood in the movie.

[00:33:45] There's not that much gore in the movie, but that is a little misleading.

[00:33:48] That's what people say.

[00:33:49] Yeah.

[00:33:50] Okay.

[00:33:50] Yeah.

[00:33:50] We could, we could talk more about it, but like there is a lot of blood.

[00:33:53] It's just not being spurred out of veins.

[00:33:55] Right.

[00:33:55] Like it's just painting the walls.

[00:33:57] It's all over.

[00:33:57] And then there's just the sheer amount of meat, which is another thing we're going to obviously

[00:34:01] have to talk about.

[00:34:01] Oh, yeah.

[00:34:02] Like this is just.

[00:34:03] Iconic vegetarian movie.

[00:34:05] Yeah.

[00:34:06] Guillermo del Toro said that it turned him into a vegetarian.

[00:34:09] Although like for a while, for a while.

[00:34:11] Yeah.

[00:34:12] And I think like really effective actually, like in terms of like making us feel like

[00:34:18] we're a cow in a slaughterhouse that just can't even believe like the depravity and the like

[00:34:24] insanity of what's going on.

[00:34:26] All we just get is like the terror of it.

[00:34:28] And like the sound of this movie, holy fucking shit.

[00:34:33] The sound of this movie is incredible.

[00:34:35] It's one of the things that makes a cheap movie sound cheap is bad sound usually.

[00:34:40] But the mix, you know, it's obviously still low budget, but the way that they mix the

[00:34:46] sounds of the screams, the chainsaw, the pig squeals.

[00:34:51] The metal just like rubbing on other metal, like which are slaughterhouse sounds I think

[00:34:57] is what he's going for.

[00:34:59] Just think about like the way that Leatherface slams that door.

[00:35:03] Yeah.

[00:35:03] And the very first time you see him, just that thud.

[00:35:05] And then Leatherface's sounds.

[00:35:08] Yeah.

[00:35:08] Right.

[00:35:08] And the sound of him when he does the first kill, like it's subtle, you know, like there's

[00:35:14] nothing.

[00:35:14] It's just a pop, you know, like a boom.

[00:35:16] And then the guy's legs wiggling and then slam the door.

[00:35:20] Yeah.

[00:35:21] It's just, yeah.

[00:35:22] I can't wait to go through it.

[00:35:23] It has also just, it ends with not one, but two of the most iconic images that like any

[00:35:31] movie has ever ended with.

[00:35:33] Like, that's, what's amazing is you have the girl, the final girl and she's just completely,

[00:35:39] you know, like her face just expresses.

[00:35:42] Yeah.

[00:35:42] She's like Carrie and like, she's just covered in.

[00:35:44] Yeah.

[00:35:44] Yeah.

[00:35:45] Yeah.

[00:35:45] And in the same way, like Carrie, like lost her mind, you know, like, like she's completely

[00:35:49] gone, but somehow her face conveys what happened to her, even though it's inexplicable.

[00:35:54] And then the dancing Leatherface is just in the morning light.

[00:35:59] It's just so good.

[00:36:00] Yeah.

[00:36:00] Yeah.

[00:36:01] That's another thing I was going to, speaking broad strokes, so much of this movie is in

[00:36:05] the bright daytime that you just don't think that a horror movie would be set like that.

[00:36:10] Although like the scariest part of the movie, the part where it just completely goes off

[00:36:15] the rails does take place at night.

[00:36:17] And the actually like interesting shots in terms of how they capture the forest at night.

[00:36:21] Yeah.

[00:36:22] Apparently it had like a apocalypse now, like shoot.

[00:36:25] Um, they were filming in the summer, like seven days a week, like 16 hours a day.

[00:36:31] In one case, they had to do 36 hours a day to film all the grandpa scenes.

[00:36:36] So 36 hours straight, you know, like not in a day.

[00:36:38] No, I was going to say 36 hours.

[00:36:40] 36 hours straight because the makeup on the grandpa was just like, you could only do it

[00:36:45] once.

[00:36:45] So they had to film all those scenes.

[00:36:47] And you know, that's the scene where she's like, they all were completely going out of their

[00:36:52] minds.

[00:36:52] Like you feel it.

[00:36:53] You feel the like the sweat and just like the creeping insanity of the actors, I think

[00:36:59] during it.

[00:37:01] So should we go through it?

[00:37:03] Maybe we wouldn't have to go through every scene, but broad strokes.

[00:37:06] It opens with the John Larroquette.

[00:37:10] So weird that it was John Larroquette.

[00:37:12] Yeah.

[00:37:14] The film which you are about to see is an account of the tragedy which befell a group of five

[00:37:19] youths.

[00:37:20] In particular, Sally Hardesty and her invalid brother, Franklin.

[00:37:24] It is all the more tragic in that they were young.

[00:37:28] But had they lived very, very long lives, they could not have expected, nor would they have

[00:37:34] wished to see as much of the mad and macabre as they were to see that day.

[00:37:39] For them, an idyllic summer afternoon drive became a nightmare.

[00:37:44] The events of that day were to lead to the discovery of one of the most bizarre crimes in the annals of

[00:37:50] American history.

[00:37:52] The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[00:37:54] You get the sense, oh, shit, like if you're seeing this for the first time, and even when I was seeing it for the

[00:37:59] first time, I thought, oh, this must have happened, you know?

[00:38:03] And of course, that's not at all true.

[00:38:05] Like it didn't happen at all.

[00:38:07] Doesn't it feel somehow like wrong, like illegal, like to tell us that it's a true story?

[00:38:11] It's like on Fargo.

[00:38:12] Yeah.

[00:38:12] I mean, Fargo is the only other one that I can remember doing it that blatantly.

[00:38:17] Yeah.

[00:38:17] That if you can just make up like we're in a post-truth.

[00:38:20] But I feel like this movie is a little post-truth, actually.

[00:38:23] Yeah, maybe.

[00:38:24] So a great opening.

[00:38:26] Like you almost get the sense it's going to be more surreal and like expressionistic than it turns out to be,

[00:38:33] although there's definitely elements of that.

[00:38:35] But like the opening is just these photographs of corpses.

[00:38:41] So well done.

[00:38:42] Like they're just it's just darkness punctuated by a flash.

[00:38:45] Yeah.

[00:38:45] Like a camera flash where you see images of I take it to be the grave robber at work,

[00:38:51] like pulling out bits of bodies and heads and faces and arranging them.

[00:38:55] But what's the sound there?

[00:38:57] So some people say it's like the camera.

[00:38:58] It's a flash, I think, like old timey flash.

[00:39:01] Yeah.

[00:39:02] Yeah.

[00:39:02] I mean, I could be wrong, but that's what I thought.

[00:39:04] Yeah.

[00:39:04] Okay.

[00:39:05] It's just maybe exaggerated or something like that.

[00:39:08] Yeah.

[00:39:08] Because it doesn't feel like anything that I've heard.

[00:39:11] Yeah.

[00:39:11] And there's the grave robbery.

[00:39:12] There's this kind of grisly works of art that are being made here, like these sculptures.

[00:39:17] And then you have like some kind of like Rorschach.

[00:39:21] It's like the sky and negative, but not quite negative, but like fucking with the colors.

[00:39:25] Right.

[00:39:26] It's like blood red, but it's I think it's the sky and clouds.

[00:39:29] And then you see the sun, but it's like dark.

[00:39:31] Is it the sun or the moon?

[00:39:33] I think it's the sun, but it's the colors are reversed so that it looks like the moon.

[00:39:37] Okay.

[00:39:37] Because it looks like sickly yellow.

[00:39:40] Yes.

[00:39:40] Which, by the way, gives the whole movie, the tone, like the color of the movie gives

[00:39:45] me this weird, like it's very yellow as a movie.

[00:39:49] It gives me a feeling that it's daylight, but it's not quite daylight.

[00:39:53] Yeah.

[00:39:53] And it's that hazy kind of shitty, like Texas like has those days, especially certain areas.

[00:40:00] It's just like, yeah.

[00:40:01] And the sun never fully comes out because it's just behind all this haze and like just kind

[00:40:07] of shitty air.

[00:40:08] And then you get these cool voiceovers of the radio, which I didn't bother to check.

[00:40:12] Are these real radio broadcasts the whole time?

[00:40:14] I don't think so.

[00:40:15] No.

[00:40:15] In fact, like I actually know for sure that it's not.

[00:40:18] It's like, cause they're talking about the grave robberies.

[00:40:20] Yeah.

[00:40:20] Among other things.

[00:40:21] Like there are other news stories.

[00:40:23] Yeah.

[00:40:23] Like it has a very Tay kind of documentary naturalistic style at times, like almost documentary.

[00:40:29] And then it also like will be German expressionistic and crazy at times.

[00:40:34] And somehow like it never feels like it's pastiche.

[00:40:38] It's like it all kind of blends together really well.

[00:40:41] And then see, after the sickly yellow sun, we'll say, you get the dead armadillo on the

[00:40:48] side of the road.

[00:40:49] It's just like, you already know before you see the Scooby gang that they're cursed in a

[00:40:53] hundred different ways.

[00:40:55] Okay.

[00:40:55] So like, it's kind of interesting, the ableism or maybe ally.

[00:41:00] Yeah.

[00:41:01] Representation.

[00:41:02] But they have to pull over because Franklin has to go take a piss on the side of the road.

[00:41:09] They're always doing the bare minimum of being nice to Franklin, I think for the most part.

[00:41:15] And yeah, it's a pain in the ass to have to set up the ramp and like get him down there

[00:41:19] and then just show Franklin pissing.

[00:41:21] It's just, dude, I know it sets the stage well for this kind of grotesquerie.

[00:41:28] You're just already sort of like, okay, we're not going to shy away from bodies.

[00:41:32] Like this is not, not a scene that usually are shown.

[00:41:35] Right.

[00:41:35] And bodily emissions bodily.

[00:41:37] Yeah.

[00:41:39] Like also I should say like in a million years, I couldn't piss under those circumstances.

[00:41:43] Like all these people waiting for me.

[00:41:46] Like I have a little cup by like, I cannot be a paraplegic.

[00:41:49] Like that'll be, it'll be over for me.

[00:41:52] Like I'll never piss again.

[00:41:53] Yeah.

[00:41:54] And then he just gets knocked over by some trucker.

[00:41:57] Yeah.

[00:41:57] It's not even clear what happens.

[00:41:59] A truck, like debris flies from the truck and he falls.

[00:42:03] Yeah.

[00:42:03] Now we go into like, they talk about the horoscope and it's very funny.

[00:42:06] Like the degree to which this movie just tells you everything that's going to happen almost

[00:42:12] explicitly within the horoscopes with Saturn is already malefic.

[00:42:18] Yeah.

[00:42:18] It's in retrograde.

[00:42:19] But it's now in retrograde, which is even worse.

[00:42:21] Yeah.

[00:42:21] Yeah.

[00:42:21] So what they're doing, unlike a lot of subsequent slasher movies where, you know, they're all

[00:42:26] going to have sex and sin, you know, and so they have to be punished for that.

[00:42:30] They're just checking on their grandfather's grave, right?

[00:42:34] To make sure it wasn't one of them that had been robbed.

[00:42:36] And so that's why they're there.

[00:42:39] They seem like there's two couples in Franklin, kind of the hot couple and the slightly more

[00:42:46] like, I don't think Sally's a nerd.

[00:42:48] They're also hot.

[00:42:48] Yeah.

[00:42:49] They're also, well, yeah.

[00:42:50] Well, you don't think the nerd is hot.

[00:42:51] The Jew nerd is hot.

[00:42:52] I think he is too.

[00:42:53] I'm not discriminating.

[00:42:55] Okay.

[00:42:55] Like Franklin is already just a little bit, you can tell like of an outcast, but they pay

[00:43:00] attention to him, you know?

[00:43:01] Yeah.

[00:43:02] And then they pick up a hitchhiker, which doesn't turn out to be the best idea.

[00:43:06] This is like one of the scariest, just most fucked up scenes in the whole movie for me.

[00:43:12] So well done.

[00:43:14] Like whatever they, whatever little details they gave this guy, you know, he has up like

[00:43:18] a port wine birthmark on his face.

[00:43:20] He stutters and he's like, has around his neck, like some sort of animal skin coin purse,

[00:43:27] which then reveal like pictures of dead cows.

[00:43:29] Just like anything could come by the end.

[00:43:31] Like he could take anything out of there and you wouldn't be surprised.

[00:43:34] Exactly.

[00:43:35] Franklin.

[00:43:36] And he, but one point he borrows Franklin's pocket knife.

[00:43:39] He's admiring it.

[00:43:40] He just starts slicing into his own skin.

[00:43:42] And that's where you're just like, okay, fuck.

[00:43:44] So they had just passed a slaughterhouse and Franklin was saying how he had an uncle that

[00:43:49] worked in the slaughterhouse.

[00:43:51] And in one of the central, I think metaphors for the movie, like they used to kill them

[00:43:56] with a sledgehammer.

[00:43:57] But once they went to the air gun, the no country for old men air gun, then a lot of

[00:44:04] people were out of a job, including this family.

[00:44:07] Used to be skilled labor.

[00:44:08] Yep.

[00:44:09] Right.

[00:44:09] Yeah.

[00:44:09] I mean, it's just that.

[00:44:11] Like it's not even in any way like a metaphor for that.

[00:44:14] It's actually that like modernization puts people out of work.

[00:44:18] Hey man, did you go in that slaughter room or whatever they call it?

[00:44:21] The place where they shoot the cattle in the head with that big air gun thing.

[00:44:24] Oh, that gun's no good.

[00:44:27] I was in there once with my uncle.

[00:44:29] No way.

[00:44:30] With a sledge.

[00:44:33] See, that was better.

[00:44:34] They died better that way.

[00:44:35] How come?

[00:44:36] I thought the gun was better.

[00:44:37] Oh no.

[00:44:38] No.

[00:44:39] With a new way people put on a job.

[00:44:43] You do that?

[00:44:45] Look.

[00:44:48] So he talks about that, but even that, he's not like he's indignant or something like that.

[00:44:53] He's just oozing weirdness and creepiness.

[00:44:57] And yeah, one of the culminating things is when he cuts his own arm, I guess.

[00:45:03] Like, and they're all like all these kids are like, what are you, you know.

[00:45:07] The look of shock on their face.

[00:45:09] The way that they're all staring at him as he sliced into his hand.

[00:45:12] It's a total breakdown of social norms.

[00:45:15] Like in the van at that time.

[00:45:17] Like it's a complete, like everything he does, then just taking a picture randomly, you know,

[00:45:22] and then like showing them pictures and talking about head cheese.

[00:45:26] You'd probably like it if you didn't know what was in it.

[00:45:29] He tries to get them.

[00:45:30] I guess he is a lure in some ways.

[00:45:32] I don't know if he's, I think he's doing it on his own.

[00:45:34] I don't think like that's his job, but he is trying to get them to come to the house.

[00:45:38] He didn't do a good job of convincing him.

[00:45:40] Yeah.

[00:45:41] He's like, no, we'll have you over for dinner.

[00:45:43] And then when he, they don't want to buy his photograph, which is like, I guess some

[00:45:48] kind of closeup of Franklin.

[00:45:50] Which we never see.

[00:45:51] Which we never see.

[00:45:52] Like he looks genuinely hurt by that.

[00:45:55] Yeah.

[00:45:55] And then he, I guess, like also just as a final thing, slices open Franklin a little

[00:46:02] bit.

[00:46:02] Like a cut on the arm also.

[00:46:04] A bad cut.

[00:46:05] And then he gets kicked out of the van and wipes it and starts spitting.

[00:46:09] So one of the things I noticed is Franklin is both repulsed by this guy, but then also

[00:46:17] fascinated with him as he comes in because like, I think he senses that this guy is also

[00:46:23] an outcast like him.

[00:46:25] So he's like a demented kindred spirit of Franklin.

[00:46:30] And there's a later scene where like that just becomes virtually explicit, but I haven't

[00:46:36] heard this necessarily talked about in whatever little I read about this, but that seemed

[00:46:42] to me like they're making a connection here.

[00:46:44] Franklin more than all of them is just can't take his eyes off the guy and can't stop talking

[00:46:49] about him afterwards.

[00:46:50] It's interesting that you say that because I like one, they're the two ones that have

[00:46:54] knives that they're just carrying around.

[00:46:56] Yeah.

[00:46:57] Right.

[00:46:57] And then I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but later on when Franklin is

[00:47:00] carving up the van.

[00:47:02] Oh.

[00:47:02] Do you remember that?

[00:47:03] No, that's not what I'm thinking of, but that's right too.

[00:47:05] Yeah.

[00:47:05] So Franklin at one point is like cutting into the van and I don't remember who it is.

[00:47:10] I think it's not Kirk, but what's the other guy?

[00:47:13] Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.

[00:47:14] Jerry.

[00:47:14] He's like, yo, what are you doing?

[00:47:16] And he's like, oh shit, I didn't realize it.

[00:47:18] Like he, he didn't realize that he was, he had just mindlessly started cutting into

[00:47:22] the, to the side of the van with his knife.

[00:47:24] Yeah.

[00:47:25] And also like the spitting.

[00:47:26] So when they throw him out, the hitchhiker starts spitting at them.

[00:47:30] And then when Franklin's at kind of the most pissed off with everybody, he starts doing

[00:47:35] that same thing.

[00:47:36] And like, these are the mirrors of like what, you know, either we could become or what we

[00:47:42] are at some level.

[00:47:44] Okay.

[00:47:45] So here's where it gets very explicit in terms of like what's going to happen.

[00:47:49] They continue with the horoscope after this, but now they're a little freaked out.

[00:47:53] But and Franklin's is long range plans and upsetting persons around you could make this a disturbing

[00:48:00] and unpredictable day.

[00:48:02] Which it definitely turns out to be very unpredictable, quite disturbing, a lot of upsetting persons.

[00:48:09] Although for him, I think it's like the group that's upsetting.

[00:48:12] And then Sally's horoscope.

[00:48:14] I don't know if I have this exact quote, but it's something like there are moments where

[00:48:18] you can't believe what you're seeing is really true.

[00:48:21] Pinch yourself in these moments.

[00:48:23] So we go to like this guy who's got a big forehead at a gas station, but there's no gas, right?

[00:48:29] Like this just for you feel also that we're at a time of total deprivation, you know, in

[00:48:34] like small kind of shit town, Texas anyway.

[00:48:38] But now it's like worse and nobody can even get gas.

[00:48:43] And they're at a barbecue place.

[00:48:45] It says we slaughter.

[00:48:46] Oh God, man.

[00:48:49] Okay.

[00:48:49] So we could start talking about, so the guy who runs this place.

[00:48:53] Well, first of all, do you see him as the brother, older brother or the father of the

[00:48:58] clan?

[00:48:58] I thought it was the father the whole time, but I realized at some point that was never

[00:49:02] made explicit.

[00:49:03] Just this, I think the vibe, the way that he was like willing to chastise and punish the

[00:49:09] other two, hitchhiker and Leatherface gave me father vibes.

[00:49:14] But he also calls the old man grandpa.

[00:49:16] So I don't know.

[00:49:17] Jen and I disagreed about this, but I thought it was an older brother vibe, you know, like

[00:49:21] maybe significantly older, but like, you know, the parents aren't there and he feels

[00:49:26] like he's in charge and they don't totally treat him like he's in charge.

[00:49:29] I think that's probably the right way because like they definitely didn't respect him as

[00:49:33] a father.

[00:49:33] No, no.

[00:49:34] Right.

[00:49:34] Like, and they might not respect their father, but I didn't get that sense.

[00:49:38] So like I did read that that was at least in one place that that was confirmed by one

[00:49:42] of the co-screenwriters.

[00:49:44] They did, they later retconned him as the father and later like sequels or whatever reboots

[00:49:51] of the movie.

[00:49:52] But they meant him to be the older brother, I think.

[00:49:56] In any case, he's an interesting character because he is completely conflicted about what

[00:50:02] he does at the most basic level where he, he literally alternates like second by second

[00:50:10] from feeling ashamed and like loving it and being titillated by what he's doing.

[00:50:15] And this is the first time you see that.

[00:50:16] Like he genuinely tells them, don't go to the, that old house.

[00:50:21] What does he say?

[00:50:21] He says, you don't want to be messing around there.

[00:50:23] Some folks don't like it and they don't mind showing you.

[00:50:26] And then like, you could see as he goes back to the store that he's having like, wait,

[00:50:32] but I want them to go.

[00:50:34] But then, and he's having like a crisis of conscience.

[00:50:36] And then he does kind of go back and again, tell them not to go.

[00:50:40] But I don't know.

[00:50:41] What do you think?

[00:50:41] Yeah, definitely conflicted.

[00:50:42] And he tells him that there's no gas.

[00:50:45] And I don't know that there's no gas because he might just be doing that to strand them.

[00:50:49] But I genuinely thought he was trying to warn them off.

[00:50:52] He might be saying no gas to strand them, but then also saying, don't go there.

[00:50:56] He reminds me a little bit of Anthony, what's his name?

[00:50:58] Psycho, where he's like, the part of him is trying to be nice to the woman.

[00:51:02] Like he doesn't want mother to hurt her.

[00:51:05] You know?

[00:51:05] Yeah.

[00:51:06] Mother will come and hurt her.

[00:51:07] But, yeah.

[00:51:10] Yeah.

[00:51:10] I mean, but he is like an obvious schizophrenic or, you know, like the movie's version of that.

[00:51:18] Whereas this guy, I think, is definitely the most sane of the family.

[00:51:25] Is that fair to say?

[00:51:27] Yeah.

[00:51:27] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:51:28] And I couldn't help but read into, like if we're, and I'm sure we'll talk about this,

[00:51:32] but the theme of like animal suffering and meat eating and all that.

[00:51:37] Yeah.

[00:51:37] That he just represents people who don't want to do the dirty work, but nonetheless partake

[00:51:42] in it.

[00:51:42] And when you point it out, what has to be done for them to enjoy it, they feel bad about it.

[00:51:46] Yeah.

[00:51:47] But then they'll also prod the cows.

[00:51:48] Like sometimes there's also a part of them that just kind of likes the sadism of prodding

[00:51:53] the cows, but then feeling bad about it and not taking pleasure in it.

[00:51:57] Like he says explicitly, take no pleasure in killing, but he takes the pleasure in eating.

[00:52:01] And yes.

[00:52:02] And in cooking, some people say he's only the cook, but like, so as Franklin is having

[00:52:07] one of like a sausage, are we to assume that that's just somebody's, you know, like thigh?

[00:52:12] Doesn't it look like a finger to you?

[00:52:14] It looks like a finger.

[00:52:15] Like it literally looks like a, like a cigar that he has in his mouth.

[00:52:19] Yeah.

[00:52:19] It looks like a cigar.

[00:52:20] He looks like kind of disabled Columbo at one point.

[00:52:25] But I think like none of that is ever confirmed.

[00:52:29] It's, it's so funny cause he's, they have, they make this choice to have this disabled

[00:52:35] character that is kind of ostracized and nobody wants him around.

[00:52:39] And then they also make him pretty unlikable and also, I don't know, disgusting a little

[00:52:45] bit.

[00:52:45] Like when he's just like with the sausage out of his mouth, like the cigar, it's like

[00:52:50] you become complicit in also wanting him to be ostracized.

[00:52:55] You know?

[00:52:56] I like that.

[00:52:57] Yeah.

[00:52:57] Like, so this is their old family place, I guess.

[00:53:00] So what's the relation between these five kids?

[00:53:03] Is Franklin the sibling of Sally?

[00:53:06] So they grew up there.

[00:53:07] Well, I don't think they grew up there.

[00:53:09] I think they visited their grandparents there.

[00:53:12] And so they had like their own rooms and stuff like that.

[00:53:15] Right.

[00:53:16] Yeah.

[00:53:16] The scene of the daddy long legs in the ceiling corner, like the spider scurrying, that alone,

[00:53:21] I was like, oh shit, man, that's really good.

[00:53:24] Well, that's what's so funny.

[00:53:25] It's like, oh, this old family home at this point in the movie, like it looks as scary as

[00:53:30] the, well, not quite as the story.

[00:53:33] From the outside.

[00:53:34] Yeah.

[00:53:34] Yeah.

[00:53:34] Like it's run down.

[00:53:36] It's got like the wallpapers like oozing off.

[00:53:39] There's, there's also like bone sculptures in the house.

[00:53:43] Are there in that house?

[00:53:44] Because one of them, I think Jerry, like when he's wandering around, sees these sculptures.

[00:53:49] I thought.

[00:53:50] Oh, at one point Franklin, Franklin sees something on the ground.

[00:53:53] Yeah.

[00:53:54] Yeah.

[00:53:54] Yes.

[00:53:54] Yeah.

[00:53:55] Franklin sees like this thing on the ground.

[00:53:57] That's like, it was hard for me to even tell what it was, but you're right.

[00:53:59] It's definitely bones and maybe feathers even.

[00:54:01] And then he looks up and there's like a mobile hanging from like the doorway, which made me

[00:54:05] think like if these people lived there for all that time and those people lived so close

[00:54:12] next to them, are we to understand that there was some kind of understanding or some

[00:54:16] kind of barbecuing together?

[00:54:18] Right.

[00:54:19] I mean, it could be right.

[00:54:20] Like, and we don't have any sense of what happened to the grandparents.

[00:54:25] And clearly the house hasn't been lived in for a while.

[00:54:29] So this is where he starts, like Franklin starts, I'd say legitimately complaining about

[00:54:35] like, he's hearing all the laughter and the fun and like, you know, the two couples upstairs.

[00:54:39] And he can't go upstairs.

[00:54:40] Yeah.

[00:54:40] And so he starts doing a kind of imitation of that, like, you know, like, and then spits.

[00:54:46] Very grotesque.

[00:54:47] Yeah.

[00:54:47] Yeah.

[00:54:48] Exactly.

[00:54:48] And he's got like, he's like, if I have any more fun today, I don't think I'm going

[00:54:52] to be able to take it.

[00:54:56] You know, and then he bumps right into like the doorframe because he can't control his

[00:55:01] wheelchair.

[00:55:01] And I feel for the guy, no one wants to know, you know, there's heavily implied that one

[00:55:05] of the couples is going to be upstairs fucking while the other one goes to the swimming hole

[00:55:09] and like, no one wants to have to sit there and listen.

[00:55:12] No, totally.

[00:55:13] So the slutty or girl, the blonde guy, the hotter couple, I guess, come down.

[00:55:18] And like, I always thought it's just kind of mean to even say like, we want to go down

[00:55:23] swimming, you know, like exactly the kind of thing Franklin can't do.

[00:55:27] Yeah.

[00:55:27] And they're mad that he hasn't already told them where it is practically the way they, the

[00:55:32] way they ask him of that.

[00:55:34] And Franklin tells them, you know, like there used to be a trail down by those two old sheds.

[00:55:39] He says, and then they go off and now the movie gets into the slasher element of it.

[00:55:47] But you know, what are we like half an hour in at least before that happens?

[00:55:52] But there's been a lot of fucked up, like you're never feel safe in this movie.

[00:55:57] Nope.

[00:55:58] Good buildup.

[00:55:59] Yeah.

[00:55:59] So they go, there's definitely some exploitation kind of shots of Pam.

[00:56:03] Yeah.

[00:56:04] Yeah.

[00:56:04] From behind kind of ass, like she's wearing a, uh, like nothing on her back and short

[00:56:08] shorts.

[00:56:09] And it never felt that sexualized to me.

[00:56:12] Obviously it was intended.

[00:56:13] It's a young, attractive woman, but there is just something about bodies throughout this

[00:56:17] whole movie that is just like we are bodies like the animals are.

[00:56:22] It was very denial of death at some point.

[00:56:23] Right.

[00:56:24] Yeah.

[00:56:24] I mean, he even says we're all into meat or something like the hitchhiker says that to

[00:56:28] them.

[00:56:28] We're all in meat.

[00:56:30] And the movie is exactly that.

[00:56:32] Yeah.

[00:56:32] Very denial of death actually, which also comes out around this time.

[00:56:36] Oh yeah.

[00:56:37] Huh.

[00:56:37] Yeah.

[00:56:37] Imagery from Vietnam and atrocities, like that kind of thing I'm sure was influencing.

[00:56:42] It's, it's in the air that where there's just these disgusting animals that are hot

[00:56:48] and suffering.

[00:56:48] I mean, all of 70s cinema is like a disgusting animals that are hot.

[00:56:52] Violent and sweaty.

[00:56:53] Yeah.

[00:56:55] So there's no watering hole.

[00:56:57] I like that, you know, because in a lot of subsequent movies, they do have like a great

[00:57:01] swimming.

[00:57:02] Like it's a beautiful lake and they're all swimming and they probably take off their clothes and,

[00:57:06] you know, but not here.

[00:57:08] It's just dry.

[00:57:09] And yeah.

[00:57:10] And they're even mean to Franklin down here.

[00:57:12] They're like, how did he ever get down here?

[00:57:14] You know?

[00:57:15] Yeah.

[00:57:16] But then they hear this generator at the next house, which obviously suggests that they

[00:57:21] have gasoline.

[00:57:23] And so Kirk decides to go there.

[00:57:26] Now it doesn't look like it's a good idea to go to this place.

[00:57:29] No, but it's not like the psycho house or anything.

[00:57:32] Like I could see why he'd be like, oh, maybe we can borrow some gasoline.

[00:57:35] I mean, he's very optimistic.

[00:57:36] Yeah.

[00:57:37] And the shots are good here to give you this sense of impending rate.

[00:57:40] We're getting first.

[00:57:41] We get like a long lens shot from behind them as they're going up to the house.

[00:57:45] But then we get these shots from inside the house as if the person in there is like looking

[00:57:49] at them in a predatory way.

[00:57:50] Although like you don't get the sense that Leatherface is looking at them, but it's shot

[00:57:54] just in a way that it makes us feel maximally uncomfortable.

[00:57:58] So actually the fact that there's a generator means that they do have access to gas.

[00:58:03] So that does support your theory that he might've lied about that, but then also felt bad about

[00:58:09] lying and yeah, which totally fits.

[00:58:11] I like that.

[00:58:12] I love, by the way, the sound of the gas generator, you know, it's like the engine sound that's

[00:58:17] going to be repeated with a chainsaw.

[00:58:19] And in both of those cases, like the sound of the machinery is drowning out the sounds

[00:58:24] of the humans.

[00:58:25] Also kind of interesting is the fact that he actually invades the house, right?

[00:58:30] Like there's nobody there.

[00:58:32] Like he calls and nobody answers.

[00:58:34] He goes in, he's still calling for them, but now he's in the house and it does feel like

[00:58:39] a violation a little bit what he's doing.

[00:58:41] Yeah.

[00:58:41] A little too, a little too confident and comfortable.

[00:58:44] Yeah.

[00:58:44] He reminds me of the guy in Die Hard, who's the cokehead who thinks he can go negotiate

[00:58:49] with the terrorists.

[00:58:49] He got, he's got this.

[00:58:51] Like, he's like, I got this.

[00:58:51] Totally.

[00:58:52] He's a fucking cocky, like blonde, like college kid.

[00:58:56] And he's doesn't have any idea like what's in store for him.

[00:59:00] And I love how just unceremonious this is.

[00:59:03] Like all of a sudden, like the door opens, pop, shake of the legs, which is very effective,

[00:59:08] I think, as he's dying.

[00:59:10] Yeah.

[00:59:10] Which was sort of foreshadowed when the hitchhiker was talking about how, you know, sometimes

[00:59:15] when you hit the cows one time, they're just shaking on the floor.

[00:59:18] They don't quite die.

[00:59:19] And you see this happening with now a human body.

[00:59:22] And then just slams the door.

[00:59:24] Like, it's almost like, what the fuck?

[00:59:25] Like, this is bullshit.

[00:59:28] And a lumbering body, like a real threatening, just big, big body.

[00:59:33] Yeah.

[00:59:33] And a butcher's apron, which he'll later trade for like a more, like mother's apron.

[00:59:41] That's funny.

[00:59:42] Yeah, that is funny.

[00:59:44] Yeah.

[00:59:44] And then Pam has been waiting outside, kind of sulking because she didn't want to go into

[00:59:50] the house.

[00:59:51] And since we're saying goodbye to Kirk, I think he was the one that wanted to pick up

[00:59:56] the hitchhiker because he was worried that he would be too hot and then he'll like die

[01:00:00] of thirst out there.

[01:00:02] And so, and again here, I think his optimism, he's like, no, no, they'll probably just give

[01:00:07] us some gas.

[01:00:07] I'll give him my guitar and like a couple of bucks.

[01:00:11] Anyway, that's the end of Kirk.

[01:00:13] So Pam, of course, goes in looking for him.

[01:00:15] And before when Kirk was looking in, if I recall correctly, the house was, you did see some

[01:00:19] of these animal things, but it was pretty dark.

[01:00:21] You didn't quite get a sense of what was in.

[01:00:24] Yes.

[01:00:24] Which is good because of what Pam does.

[01:00:27] Yeah.

[01:00:27] This is a great leave the house movie.

[01:00:30] You know, like it's like the Eddie Murphy thing.

[01:00:32] Why don't white people leave the house when there's a ghost in the house?

[01:00:36] Right.

[01:00:37] I've watched it.

[01:00:38] I was watching Poltergeist last month.

[01:00:40] I got a question.

[01:00:42] Why don't white people just leave the house when there's a ghost in the house?

[01:00:51] Y'all stay in the house too fucking long.

[01:00:53] Get the fuck out of the house.

[01:00:54] Very simple.

[01:00:55] It's a ghost in the house.

[01:00:56] Get the fuck out.

[01:00:59] So yeah, she goes in to try to find him and she falls.

[01:01:03] She kind of like falls into a room.

[01:01:06] It's like a feather room.

[01:01:07] There's a chicken in a bird cage, which is very like upsetting.

[01:01:11] Just this actual chicken like trapped in this bird cage like they are in like pens.

[01:01:17] So I think it is kind of like that.

[01:01:19] And then just bones everywhere.

[01:01:21] A kind of insane skeleton sculpture of like different human beings, I think.

[01:01:27] Yeah.

[01:01:27] So yeah.

[01:01:28] In my notes writing very quickly, I wrote room full of bones and claws and feathers.

[01:01:33] Human skeletons on chairs, macabre.

[01:01:35] Skull swinging.

[01:01:36] Can't even distinguish human from non-human.

[01:01:38] Yes.

[01:01:38] Overwhelming.

[01:01:39] One live chicken dangling.

[01:01:41] Pam vomits.

[01:01:41] Yeah.

[01:01:42] Yeah.

[01:01:43] I like that they are a kind of arts and crafts family.

[01:01:47] Totally.

[01:01:49] They're using the whole animal.

[01:01:51] Yeah, they do.

[01:01:51] No, that's definitely right.

[01:01:52] They use the whole animal for like the couch for...

[01:01:55] And that's what he said that they used to do at the slaughterhouse with the head cheese

[01:01:58] was like, that's part of the animal.

[01:02:00] So they're going to use it.

[01:02:01] That's right.

[01:02:01] It's very much about sustainability and like recycling.

[01:02:05] I think they are like the doppelganger versions of just like an artistic family.

[01:02:10] But you can imagine though that that house must be reeking from a mile away.

[01:02:14] Like I don't think you can have that many bones and skin without stinking.

[01:02:20] So then Leatherface finds her now that she's just in the house like freaking out and, you

[01:02:25] know, like takes her, puts her on a meat hook.

[01:02:28] Okay.

[01:02:29] This.

[01:02:29] Yeah.

[01:02:30] That fucking hook, man.

[01:02:31] That is one of the most effective horror moments that I've ever seen.

[01:02:36] And granted, I haven't seen that many, but he grabs her from behind, you know, like, and

[01:02:40] you could just feel the helplessness.

[01:02:42] If you've ever been grabbed by a big person from behind where you can't move your arms,

[01:02:45] it's fucking helpless.

[01:02:46] He just takes her over to a meat hook and drops her there.

[01:02:49] And of course you don't see the hook penetrating her skin because you're watching from the front,

[01:02:53] but...

[01:02:54] You feel it.

[01:02:54] Oh my God, man.

[01:02:55] You feel it.

[01:02:56] And she's just alive hanging on a meat hook.

[01:02:59] Holy shit.

[01:03:00] And meanwhile, he's at work on Kirk, cutting up Kirk.

[01:03:04] So she, on a meat hook, watches Leatherface cut up Kirk.

[01:03:08] But this is what they do.

[01:03:10] You know, like this guy came into their house, so he's going to use the meat.

[01:03:13] You know, he's going to use every part of the animal.

[01:03:16] He looks like a...

[01:03:17] Have you ever seen those ice sculptors with chainsaws?

[01:03:20] Yeah.

[01:03:20] Yes.

[01:03:21] He looks like he's moving the chainsaw in a very sort of like...

[01:03:24] Definitely.

[01:03:24] Like it's an art.

[01:03:25] That's his like art artistic expression in the movie because he gets really into it.

[01:03:30] But I don't think it's out of the sadism of it.

[01:03:33] I think it's just, I'm using the chainsaw.

[01:03:35] I'm creating this sculpture.

[01:03:36] We haven't said this, I don't think, but he's definitely developmentally disabled.

[01:03:40] He's nonverbal.

[01:03:42] He just...

[01:03:42] Yeah.

[01:03:43] And childlike.

[01:03:45] Like I think in some ways he's one of the most sympathetic.

[01:03:47] He's certainly the most sympathetic Sawyer, I think.

[01:03:50] Possibly the most sympathetic person in the movie.

[01:03:53] Maybe after Sally or...

[01:03:55] Yeah, I didn't think quite feel sympathy for him, but...

[01:03:58] You have no empathy.

[01:04:00] You might be on the spectrum.

[01:04:02] It's so...

[01:04:03] And then he, like, I honestly think like he put her on the meat hook just because like he's doing this.

[01:04:08] And so he needs her out of the way.

[01:04:10] Stay here.

[01:04:11] Just to not interfere and then puts her in the freezer.

[01:04:15] And he just seems like, what the fuck?

[01:04:17] Yeah.

[01:04:18] There's a later scene, like I think after the next guy comes in, Gary or Jerry, where he just goes to the window and he's like, how many of you fucking people are there out there?

[01:04:28] You know, like, and again, like, I don't know.

[01:04:30] I feel bad for him at that moment.

[01:04:32] He didn't ask these teenagers to come into the house.

[01:04:35] No, and that's what they deserve for coming.

[01:04:38] Yeah, exactly.

[01:04:40] I was just going to say one of the things that, you know, good horror does well is when he's cutting into Kirk, we don't see the chainsaw going into the flesh.

[01:04:49] We see Pam's expression screaming, right?

[01:04:51] She's not just screaming from the pain of being on the meat hook.

[01:04:54] She's just like the horror of seeing her friend, boyfriend being cut into pieces.

[01:04:59] Yep, exactly.

[01:05:00] It does that so well.

[01:05:01] Apparently he tried to get this to have a PG rating once, like he didn't have the budget to do like realistic looking blood.

[01:05:11] And so they were like, it's better if you do it like this.

[01:05:13] Just like things like what you say.

[01:05:14] We see their expressions or we see just the way like the chainsaw is shaking or something.

[01:05:20] Or we see the guy's legs.

[01:05:21] You know, like it's all he makes us use our imagination.

[01:05:24] There's one exception that I guess we're about to get to.

[01:05:26] But when it's Franklin, you see splatter.

[01:05:29] But you don't see the chainsaw go into Franklin.

[01:05:32] No, but you see blood spurting out.

[01:05:34] Yeah.

[01:05:35] Now it's just Franklin and Sally.

[01:05:37] Oh, no, no.

[01:05:37] And also Jerry.

[01:05:40] And Franklin is just being such a pain in the ass.

[01:05:42] Before I forget.

[01:05:43] So here they have a discussion about Franklin's like, oh, I told him where you live or whatever.

[01:05:47] But did the hitchhiker try to draw something on the side of the van?

[01:05:51] Yeah, it's like some sort of like a cult, like blood painting or something.

[01:05:54] Like, man, true detective vibes, you know, true detective season one.

[01:05:57] Absolutely.

[01:05:58] A hundred percent.

[01:05:59] And that's the thing that isn't cleaned.

[01:06:00] Like there's a guy cleaning the van, but he doesn't clean that.

[01:06:04] Oh, he marked it for them.

[01:06:05] Yeah.

[01:06:06] So Jerry has just had it and he leaves.

[01:06:09] Franklin is just asking questions at this point.

[01:06:11] He won't stop.

[01:06:12] And Sally is just at wit's end, it seems like.

[01:06:16] Meanwhile, the 70s nerd Jerry goes into the house.

[01:06:21] At this point, it's almost like, is this credible?

[01:06:26] He's like, Kirk, quit goofing on me.

[01:06:28] Like Kirk's playing a joke on him.

[01:06:30] It's like, what do you need to not go into a house?

[01:06:34] I know.

[01:06:34] Even you and I, when we've been in unfamiliar places, had our knives at our side ready for some action.

[01:06:40] Well, you did.

[01:06:41] I think what might add to the almost silliness of it is you're getting some Dutch angle shots here.

[01:06:47] Definitely.

[01:06:48] Starts feeling campy, horror a little bit.

[01:06:50] Like not third man style.

[01:06:52] No, no, no.

[01:06:53] Yeah.

[01:06:54] Yeah.

[01:06:55] Yeah.

[01:06:55] And there's also like the sounds again, just incredible.

[01:06:57] Like you sometimes think, is it a cat that's like trapped somewhere?

[01:07:01] Or is it the sound of a fly that's like volume put up to 50?

[01:07:06] So yeah, Kirk goes in.

[01:07:08] This is crazy.

[01:07:09] He hears Pam banging in the freezer, right?

[01:07:12] Yes, yes, yes.

[01:07:13] Yeah.

[01:07:13] Oh man.

[01:07:14] And Pam's dead in my mind.

[01:07:16] Not quite.

[01:07:17] Yeah.

[01:07:18] She's been, she's been napping in the freezer, half dead.

[01:07:22] And it's a real jump scare when he opens the freezer and she like jumps out.

[01:07:27] She jumps out.

[01:07:28] Yeah.

[01:07:28] And then here's where Leatherface comes in and he seems genuinely distressed here.

[01:07:32] It's like, how many of these like vermin are there like that are just invading my house?

[01:07:37] And I think he uses a sledgehammer for this one, right?

[01:07:40] I think so too.

[01:07:40] Yeah.

[01:07:41] And it's, yeah, it's again, fairly unceremonious when it's the guys.

[01:07:45] Yeah.

[01:07:46] We get a nice shot here of Leatherface.

[01:07:49] It's still like, it's been daytime.

[01:07:50] It's dusk now.

[01:07:51] And we get this cool shot of Leatherface kind of looking up and he's like, you see his lips

[01:07:56] through the mask.

[01:07:56] Like he's licking his lips.

[01:07:57] He's doing something with his tongue.

[01:07:59] I have that in my notes.

[01:08:00] Like he's doing something very unsettling.

[01:08:02] Very creepy.

[01:08:03] With his tongue.

[01:08:04] Yeah.

[01:08:04] And it's a full moon, obviously.

[01:08:06] There's clouds, yeah.

[01:08:07] The shots of the clouds in the sky.

[01:08:09] Yeah.

[01:08:10] So now Sally, and this is also really good because it's just like, it fucks with us too

[01:08:14] that Sally's just honking the horn right now trying to get them to come.

[01:08:18] Franklin, of course, is not being helpful.

[01:08:20] It's not who you want in this situation.

[01:08:22] He's like, Sally, they took the keys.

[01:08:28] I like you, Franklin.

[01:08:33] They took the keys.

[01:08:36] They took the keys, Sally.

[01:08:38] He's like, he's wearing on all of our patients, I think at this point.

[01:08:42] Like you feel bad for him, but at the same time, like you just want him out.

[01:08:46] I thought he was going to, having never seen this movie before, I thought he was going to

[01:08:49] be the survivor.

[01:08:50] The final girl.

[01:08:51] Yeah.

[01:08:51] You know, it's probably hard for Sally to have this as, I think her older brother, but

[01:08:56] she's pushing him through the woods.

[01:08:58] Now it's dark.

[01:08:59] Cool shots at night.

[01:09:01] I don't know what, like, it's hard to film at night.

[01:09:03] I don't know what they did, but it doesn't, they're definitely not doing like a day for

[01:09:06] night kind of thing.

[01:09:07] They're not making it seem.

[01:09:09] No, no.

[01:09:09] It's good.

[01:09:10] You can tell when like they have some of the shots with like the headlights that they

[01:09:14] were doing what they could, you know, that's just, it's just pitch black and then like headlights.

[01:09:19] Right.

[01:09:20] By the way, did I read right that this was shot on 16 millimeter?

[01:09:23] And then expand it to 35.

[01:09:25] Yeah.

[01:09:25] Right.

[01:09:26] So it's got that kind of graininess, but it looks like, that's the thing.

[01:09:29] Like this movie looks fucking great.

[01:09:30] Film grain just looks great.

[01:09:32] Yeah.

[01:09:32] Like we'll never be able to go back to these times.

[01:09:35] At best they'll be simulating things like that, which some movies do.

[01:09:38] It's just not the same.

[01:09:39] Like that's movie like simulates nothing.

[01:09:41] Like they are kind of going crazy right now.

[01:09:44] Yeah.

[01:09:45] So, yeah.

[01:09:46] And now they're moving through the forest and it's, and this is a great jump scare right

[01:09:50] here.

[01:09:50] You know, it's like at the point where I think you're, you're with Sally and at your wits

[01:09:54] end with Franklin, but also you're very worried about them all of a sudden.

[01:09:59] Like, I don't know what makes this so surprising, but Leatherface pops up, I guess from behind

[01:10:04] a tree or something.

[01:10:05] Yeah.

[01:10:05] It was a very unclear to me where he was.

[01:10:08] Yeah.

[01:10:08] I think they do some kind of like, I think I read that he would always take out like a couple

[01:10:14] frames before the cut.

[01:10:16] And so like it made it throws you off, throws you off me, makes it abrupt.

[01:10:21] Yeah.

[01:10:21] And then pour one out for Franklin here.

[01:10:24] He gets the chainsaw and yeah, the blood splatter.

[01:10:27] Very unceremonious.

[01:10:28] Yes.

[01:10:28] Yes.

[01:10:29] But more, I would say memorable.

[01:10:32] Yeah.

[01:10:33] And then great, cool shots of her running away and chased by Leatherface with the chainsaw

[01:10:38] running the whole time and her screaming.

[01:10:40] And now the movie is just goes completely off the rails.

[01:10:43] Like I remember thinking, you know, it's actually not that scary or whatever.

[01:10:47] I was telling that to my wife, like to Jen, cause I had to convince her I had to use like

[01:10:50] a, she gave me like a present once where I could choose the movie.

[01:10:53] Like no questions asked.

[01:10:55] So I was trying to tell her like, it's actually more artful and stuff like that.

[01:11:00] You know, but at this point in the movie, it just becomes completely chaotic and insane

[01:11:05] and violent.

[01:11:06] And, and if you like, you listen to it on a good sound system, it's just like the screaming

[01:11:11] kind of gets you to go crazy.

[01:11:13] Yeah.

[01:11:13] I have a note here.

[01:11:14] This is where I first noticed that it's alternating between the screams and then sometimes the

[01:11:19] chainsaw engine sound overpowering her screams in a very artificial way, kind of like, or

[01:11:24] at least a way that wouldn't be done in movies normally.

[01:11:26] Yeah.

[01:11:26] The scream would be sent her like, and here it's just like her screams are getting lost

[01:11:31] in the power of the machine.

[01:11:33] Yep.

[01:11:33] Yep.

[01:11:34] Exactly.

[01:11:34] And you never know like what's happening.

[01:11:37] You barely know where she is.

[01:11:38] Like she runs to the house and you're like, she's going to that house.

[01:11:41] Like, why would you go to that house?

[01:11:43] You know, but, but it's hard, but it's a different part of the house at first.

[01:11:47] So you don't know for sure that it's that house, but then she goes around to the side

[01:11:50] that we know.

[01:11:51] And then you're like, oh shit.

[01:11:53] She goes up the stairs.

[01:11:54] Here's one of the things where the chainsaw is the noise.

[01:11:56] So you just hear the chainsaw, which makes you know, I don't think you see Leatherface,

[01:11:59] but you know that Leatherface is very close.

[01:12:02] And she goes up, runs up.

[01:12:03] There are these two, well, at this time you think two corpses.

[01:12:09] Definitely.

[01:12:09] Not two corpses as we'll later find out.

[01:12:12] They're one corpse.

[01:12:13] And she's begging them for help.

[01:12:14] And I just, I love that.

[01:12:17] It's such a metaphor, I thought, for how fucked we are.

[01:12:20] Like as a society that we're begging for help from like a corpse and a zombie or, you

[01:12:27] know, a vampire.

[01:12:29] I haven't ruled out, by the way, a supernatural angle to this film, which I want to talk to

[01:12:33] you about.

[01:12:33] Really?

[01:12:34] Okay.

[01:12:34] You want to get into it now?

[01:12:36] Yeah.

[01:12:36] So as I was watching this movie and thinking about the old man, the corpse looking guy and

[01:12:43] the allusions to vampirism and the references to the Zodiac and astrology, I was like, this

[01:12:49] is more Lovecraftian on my second watch than I thought it might be.

[01:12:53] And then with that True Detective shit, which obviously the direction of influences Texas

[01:12:58] Chainsaw to True Detective, with that heavy hint of like maybe something of the dark arts

[01:13:04] going on.

[01:13:05] Yeah.

[01:13:06] And it has a kind of an Alice Cooper just fucked up.

[01:13:09] Like early 70s.

[01:13:11] Yeah.

[01:13:11] Yeah.

[01:13:11] Which is always kind of on the edge of supernatural.

[01:13:13] Are you possessed?

[01:13:14] Yeah.

[01:13:15] I don't think he was trying to say this was supernatural, but the scene with the grandfather

[01:13:18] sucking that blood, man.

[01:13:19] Yeah.

[01:13:20] It's like, what is this?

[01:13:21] Yeah.

[01:13:21] No, I know.

[01:13:22] And it's never explained.

[01:13:23] Like, I don't know if that, like, I didn't, is that real?

[01:13:25] That somebody could just be kind of half alive, but like.

[01:13:29] I don't think so, right?

[01:13:29] Because he's so real.

[01:13:31] Yeah.

[01:13:31] He looks like Salieri, by the way.

[01:13:33] He looks like at the end of Amadeus, for sure.

[01:13:37] Yeah.

[01:13:37] That's a lot.

[01:13:38] It just is Salieri.

[01:13:42] Yeah.

[01:13:43] So, you see Leatherface coming up the stairs and then she jumps out of the window.

[01:13:48] Just jumps out the second story.

[01:13:49] And again, great shots of her running with Leatherface running after her.

[01:13:54] It's also really cool.

[01:13:55] Like, you never get a clear sense of how close he is.

[01:13:57] Like, sometimes it seems like he's right behind her.

[01:14:00] Sometimes it seems like she's got a little bit of a lead.

[01:14:03] And you just never know.

[01:14:05] Like, both from the sound and some of the shots.

[01:14:07] Yeah.

[01:14:07] So, she goes to the gas station, which is a more defensible, I think, like, from her perspective.

[01:14:13] This felt like a betrayal to me.

[01:14:15] Yeah.

[01:14:16] We see also the meats and the sausages.

[01:14:18] Do we think that he completely only sells humans?

[01:14:21] I think from the house, they are indifferent to what meat they're eating.

[01:14:25] Yeah.

[01:14:26] That's right.

[01:14:26] And I think that's right.

[01:14:27] Because they have chickens.

[01:14:28] You hear, I think, some cows at some point.

[01:14:32] So, yeah.

[01:14:33] When he comes back with the truck and the burlap sack, it does seem like a betrayal.

[01:14:37] Oh, man.

[01:14:38] Oh, such a betrayal.

[01:14:40] I just say now, Marilyn Burns, who plays Sally, her craziness when she got into the gas station

[01:14:47] and is trying to explain what's happening.

[01:14:49] Yeah.

[01:14:49] How did you explain that?

[01:14:50] She's just half in shock.

[01:14:51] Yeah.

[01:14:51] Her performance is really good in this movie.

[01:14:53] I agree.

[01:14:54] Like, it's hard.

[01:14:55] I think it would be incredibly difficult to maintain that level of horror on you throughout

[01:14:59] all of this later half of the movie.

[01:15:01] And she never seems, like, acting scared.

[01:15:03] She seems like she's lost it.

[01:15:05] And it's hard for her to put sentences together.

[01:15:07] And, like, you know, she can't believe what's going on is real.

[01:15:11] Yeah.

[01:15:11] And, like, wait till the rest of the movie if she can't believe it now.

[01:15:14] But she's already, like, half in shock when she's trying to explain it.

[01:15:18] So then he takes her and he puts her in the sack.

[01:15:21] And I think there's something about when they drive to the house and he's taking her there where he's like, no, it'll be okay.

[01:15:29] Don't worry.

[01:15:30] And then just starts, like, poking her with the stick.

[01:15:34] And then immediately, like, it really is, like, every second he changes emotions about it.

[01:15:40] Like, I feel bad I'm going to try to make it as easy as possible for her.

[01:15:43] Like, free range.

[01:15:44] This is going to be a free range killer.

[01:15:47] Free range humans taste better.

[01:15:48] I'm going to fucking, I love this.

[01:15:50] I'm going to poke her.

[01:15:51] I'm going to keep poking her.

[01:15:51] It's very weird.

[01:15:52] Yeah.

[01:15:52] It's very weird.

[01:15:53] Then he's still just sadistically sort of, like, she's not going anywhere.

[01:15:56] He's just, like, jabbing her with the.

[01:15:58] Yeah.

[01:15:58] Like, maybe it's, like, there are these cockroaches that sometimes come into our house.

[01:16:02] Like, I've stopped killing them because they seem too smart.

[01:16:04] Like, they're just, they're so good at, like, escaping you that, like, I was, like, they're too smart.

[01:16:09] I'm not killing them.

[01:16:10] But there are times where, you know, a bug will piss you off and you will just smash it and you'll feel good about it, you know?

[01:16:17] You see the guts coming out and you're, like, fuck yeah, tell your friends.

[01:16:21] Like, this is a no cockroach house.

[01:16:24] Cockroach guts look like Mars the Pantone Philly.

[01:16:26] Yeah.

[01:16:27] It's horrible.

[01:16:28] So, yeah.

[01:16:30] I also like that he goes back to turn off the lights and he's, like.

[01:16:32] Yeah, that's hilarious.

[01:16:34] Cost of electricity.

[01:16:35] It was a time there was an energy crisis.

[01:16:36] Yeah.

[01:16:37] Cost of electricity put a man out of business.

[01:16:39] This is why they need to do what they do.

[01:16:41] Like, they're just trying to, you know, make it in this world like anybody else.

[01:16:46] Okay.

[01:16:47] The dinner.

[01:16:47] Should we just talk about that and we'll wrap up soon?

[01:16:49] Holy shit.

[01:16:51] Oh, man.

[01:16:51] Just straight up lynching at this.

[01:16:53] Well, I don't even know lynching.

[01:16:54] It's, like, absurd.

[01:16:55] But it's not as visually absurd.

[01:16:57] Yeah.

[01:16:58] It has a little of the racer head lynching side to it.

[01:17:02] Like, both dinners are crazy.

[01:17:04] But, yeah.

[01:17:04] It's not quite as absurdist.

[01:17:06] Yeah.

[01:17:07] But it is not realistic either.

[01:17:09] Oh, man.

[01:17:09] And when she wakes up tied hilariously to the arms of the chair.

[01:17:14] Which are literal arms.

[01:17:16] Yeah.

[01:17:16] Right.

[01:17:16] They just, nothing goes to waste in this place.

[01:17:19] I would love to watch, like, the prop making for this.

[01:17:23] Like, how the fuck did they, they had just, like, pieces of bodies strewn everywhere.

[01:17:27] Yeah.

[01:17:27] And lamps made of, you know, the leather from faces.

[01:17:30] Kind of cool, you know?

[01:17:31] Like, casting soft light.

[01:17:33] No, it's like, there's an artistry to what they're doing here.

[01:17:37] It's not even just an artistry to the filmmaking of showing something gruesome.

[01:17:41] There is a kind of artistry to their little sculptures and their furniture.

[01:17:46] It's like a little antique store made of humans and other animals.

[01:17:50] And now he's wearing leather faces in a wig and an apron.

[01:17:53] That's hilarious.

[01:17:54] He looks like the Joker, you know, in the Dark Knight, kind of.

[01:17:57] Yeah.

[01:17:58] Like, when he's dressed as the nurse.

[01:17:59] Yes, right.

[01:18:00] Exactly.

[01:18:00] Exactly, right.

[01:18:01] And here's where you find out that Leatherface really just can't talk.

[01:18:04] So the older brother slash dad comes home and they've picked up the hitchhiker along the way,

[01:18:10] who seems like the most sadistic of them.

[01:18:13] Yeah.

[01:18:14] And we find out that he was robbing the graves, which we probably thought already, but that's confirmed.

[01:18:20] And the brother, the older brother is mad, you know, is like, this could bring this whole family down.

[01:18:25] And also he gets mad, I think unfairly at Leatherface, who is just defending the house and starts beating him.

[01:18:32] And then realizing that he shouldn't be doing it once Leatherface kind of like, I don't know, he's like grunts and shrieks, kind of explain like, look, there's this one.

[01:18:43] There's this one.

[01:18:44] I did the thing I'm supposed to do.

[01:18:46] And when he asks him, where are they?

[01:18:47] He points to like the oven.

[01:18:49] Yeah.

[01:18:50] The table.

[01:18:52] And one of the places, basically.

[01:18:53] Yeah.

[01:18:53] The freezer.

[01:18:54] That's right.

[01:18:54] That's right.

[01:18:55] Yeah.

[01:18:55] There's this great little moment where I think like the older brother, if he is the older brother, like just kind of knows it's unfair, but he's like still makes up an excuse to still be mad.

[01:19:05] Totally.

[01:19:07] Totally.

[01:19:07] Yeah.

[01:19:08] What does he say again?

[01:19:09] He just makes up, well, you shouldn't have done this anyway.

[01:19:11] Yeah, exactly.

[01:19:12] Something like that.

[01:19:13] And then they're like, go get your grandpa.

[01:19:15] Oh, God.

[01:19:15] And they get grandpa.

[01:19:17] And yeah, again, it's just like every time you think, oh, this is more insane than anything, like it just gets another degree more crazed.

[01:19:25] Yeah.

[01:19:25] And it really does remind me of the psycho sort of resolution, like the ending where you're seeing the dynamics between the guy and his mom, even though it's the same guy.

[01:19:34] Here we start getting the family dynamics where they're yelling at each other.

[01:19:38] You know, he's the brother, older brother is just a cook.

[01:19:40] And he's like, I take no pleasure in killing, you know, like I just, it has to be done.

[01:19:44] And they're all like howling like werewolves at some point.

[01:19:47] It's super animalistic.

[01:19:49] It's a dysfunctional family, but it's not that dysfunctional.

[01:19:52] Like they've clearly worked it out.

[01:19:53] Like they've gotten this far just, you know, with their little roles.

[01:19:58] Yeah.

[01:19:58] Yeah.

[01:19:58] And I think the younger one's role is the least valuable, I think.

[01:20:03] But he's at least has no qualms that the older brother.

[01:20:06] He's the bad scene.

[01:20:07] Yeah.

[01:20:08] First of all, they get grandpa and they're like, look, grandpa, look.

[01:20:11] And like grandpa, it's like, I don't know.

[01:20:13] Like it's just like, it's a corpse, but it's like you can kind of see like blinking of some kind.

[01:20:18] Yeah.

[01:20:19] There's a glimmer of something in there.

[01:20:21] Yeah.

[01:20:22] Yeah.

[01:20:22] And then I think you get a quick shot of a penis on the table.

[01:20:26] Did you catch that?

[01:20:27] Yeah.

[01:20:28] It looks like a penis on the table.

[01:20:30] I was looking at the shots of meat on the table and it all looked like just pieces of dookie to me.

[01:20:36] Like it just like, it was all just this same, same color, dark brown shaped like either a phallus or a piece of turd.

[01:20:42] Yeah.

[01:20:42] But I think at one point there's like a circumcised penis in a quick shot, but I didn't like go back to double check.

[01:20:48] So that could have been me projecting something.

[01:20:51] Yeah.

[01:20:52] Oh, that's what he says.

[01:20:53] He says, you ruined the door.

[01:20:54] He gets mad at the leather face for ruining the door.

[01:20:57] Yeah.

[01:20:57] Yeah.

[01:20:58] So I have in my notes, like, what is grandpa?

[01:21:02] Like, what exactly is he?

[01:21:03] And I don't know.

[01:21:04] It's like the blood brings him to life a little bit.

[01:21:07] Right.

[01:21:07] So they're supposed to do like they're doing some sort of ritual where they cut her finger, which apparently they cut for real because the prop blood wasn't working.

[01:21:15] And they just, he just starts sucking it.

[01:21:17] Yeah.

[01:21:18] So there's a couple of allusions to vampirism.

[01:21:21] Like I think Franklin says, yeah, we picked up.

[01:21:25] Yeah.

[01:21:25] Right.

[01:21:26] And maybe a family, maybe a whole family of vampires at some point.

[01:21:30] And then somebody says it looks like the house that Bela Lugosi was born in or something like that.

[01:21:34] And so I feel like they're crazy enough to think that maybe giving grandpa blood as a family that was into slaughtering.

[01:21:40] And they probably are perfectly fine with drinking the blood of the animals.

[01:21:45] Like if they're using every part of it.

[01:21:47] So maybe they just think that it's giving him some power.

[01:21:50] It seems to work.

[01:21:51] The way that his makeup is done.

[01:21:52] Yeah.

[01:21:52] But he really looks like a corpse.

[01:21:53] Like it's hard to think that they weren't making us think he's undead in some way.

[01:21:57] Yeah.

[01:21:57] Certainly when Sally's first up in the room with the mother and grandpa, grandma and grandma, you just think, oh, he's less decomposed than the grandma.

[01:22:08] Yeah, right.

[01:22:08] But it's definitely still two corpses.

[01:22:10] Yeah.

[01:22:10] We didn't say, you know, she wakes up in the middle of the dinner or whatever.

[01:22:14] She passes out after the finger cutting, I think.

[01:22:17] Okay.

[01:22:17] And then she's screaming when she sees what's like at the table.

[01:22:21] She's just tied up and she's just screaming and screaming.

[01:22:24] And spliced into the audio are pig squeals.

[01:22:26] Yes.

[01:22:27] I don't know if you noticed.

[01:22:28] Yeah.

[01:22:28] Like, and it's just, you know, there's no pigs there.

[01:22:30] It's just like, we are animals.

[01:22:32] Like this is, it's either, this is how we treat animals.

[01:22:34] This is the perspective of an animal at one of these places, I think.

[01:22:38] And you're getting these shots of the whites of her eyes that are really, really well done.

[01:22:43] She has kind of pretty green eyes.

[01:22:44] And we get really close, close ups.

[01:22:47] Bloodshot.

[01:22:48] Yeah.

[01:22:48] It's a madhouse now.

[01:22:49] You know, they're taunting her.

[01:22:51] Leatherface kind of loves it.

[01:22:53] But I think in a more innocent way than the hitchhiker, like he just thinks, oh, we're making noises, which is what I do.

[01:23:00] I make squealing noises like anyway, you know.

[01:23:02] So the brother is a bit of a, the older one is a Debbie Downer, like half the time.

[01:23:08] But then also starts kind of, like he again alternates between like looking down and then just having a little cackling glee when she's screaming, you know.

[01:23:17] And he says, so at one point their hitchhiker and Leatherface are like right up in Sally's face, like checking out her hair.

[01:23:24] Yeah, they're pawing her.

[01:23:24] You know, being really creepy.

[01:23:25] Yeah, pawing at her.

[01:23:26] And he's pretty upset.

[01:23:28] And he says, no need to torture the poor girl.

[01:23:33] And then he's like, get on with it.

[01:23:35] I won't have this.

[01:23:36] Yeah.

[01:23:36] But he just doesn't quite have the authority that he thinks he deserves.

[01:23:40] No.

[01:23:40] And he also wants, he doesn't want to get his hands dirty.

[01:23:43] Yeah.

[01:23:43] Right.

[01:23:43] Which is what he's called out on that actually.

[01:23:46] The hitchhiker is like, we do all the dirty work.

[01:23:48] He's just the cook.

[01:23:49] Which again, like they're very distinct.

[01:23:51] The characters and the dynamics, like you said, are pretty distinct.

[01:23:54] Somebody did say that they were like a sort of twisted sitcom family.

[01:23:59] Yeah.

[01:23:59] I feel like that's right.

[01:24:00] So then they're like, okay, they got a killer.

[01:24:02] And like, that's clear.

[01:24:04] But they want to let grandpa do it because he's the best killer there ever was.

[01:24:07] They love grandpa.

[01:24:08] Yeah.

[01:24:09] 60 in five minutes he killed.

[01:24:12] Now, grandpa is not in his prime though.

[01:24:15] When it comes to killing.

[01:24:17] This scene is, this one is the most kind of overtly comic, I think.

[01:24:21] It is.

[01:24:21] Even though it's like also horrible that, you know, like, but they keep trying to make grandpa hammer her to death.

[01:24:28] And he just can't hold it.

[01:24:30] Like, he's barely alive.

[01:24:31] He's dropping the hammer.

[01:24:32] He just keeps dropping the hammer.

[01:24:33] At one point hitting her over the head, which sucks.

[01:24:36] But anyway, I think like this is where she escapes, right?

[01:24:39] Yeah, because they cut her ropes maybe for the finger blood thing.

[01:24:42] And she just manages to wiggle her way out.

[01:24:44] I think it's for the killing.

[01:24:46] Like, they have to cut her ropes to get her over to the bucket.

[01:24:49] And because of this burlesque of like the grandpa not being able to really hold the hammer.

[01:24:54] Because to be fair, like, he's 98% dead.

[01:24:58] Yeah.

[01:24:59] He's like the absolute opposite of Thor.

[01:25:01] Like, he can never hold the hammer.

[01:25:05] Okay.

[01:25:05] Sure.

[01:25:06] I just think that scene is very funny.

[01:25:09] Like, the second time I watched it, I was just laughing during that scene.

[01:25:12] No, that is the funniest.

[01:25:13] So then she runs out.

[01:25:15] Again, being chased by both the hitchhiker and Leatherface.

[01:25:19] And maybe the older brother behind.

[01:25:22] And I like the hitchhiker's death.

[01:25:24] Like, just very, again, unceremonious.

[01:25:26] Oh, totally.

[01:25:27] Just a fucking semi-truck.

[01:25:29] Boom.

[01:25:30] Boom.

[01:25:31] Boom.

[01:25:31] And we see his body get rolled over.

[01:25:33] Well, I don't know.

[01:25:34] Like, I don't have many notes for this.

[01:25:36] It's fun.

[01:25:36] You know, like, she's escaping.

[01:25:38] She's not stopped screaming this whole time.

[01:25:41] And then the truck driver actually comes out to try to help her.

[01:25:45] But then is getting chased by Leatherface.

[01:25:48] This is like Benny Hill almost.

[01:25:50] You know?

[01:25:51] It is.

[01:25:51] Like, they run out.

[01:25:52] And then they run back in one side of the truck and come out the other side of the truck.

[01:25:55] Totally.

[01:25:56] Yeah.

[01:25:56] And it's not like the first time I saw it.

[01:25:58] And even, like, the first time this round.

[01:26:00] Like, I'm still a little scared.

[01:26:01] I want them to escape.

[01:26:02] But, like, it is.

[01:26:03] It's Benny Hill.

[01:26:04] Like, you could play Benny Hill music.

[01:26:06] Yeah.

[01:26:08] What happened to the black truck driver, man?

[01:26:10] Did they just leave him to fend his way against Leatherface?

[01:26:13] I think we're...

[01:26:14] He's running and nobody's chasing him by the end.

[01:26:17] So I think he should be okay, hopefully.

[01:26:19] But we don't know.

[01:26:21] But then she just jumps in, like, a pickup truck that's going the other way.

[01:26:25] Good tension building, too.

[01:26:26] Like, you know, she's...

[01:26:27] The pickup truck does a quick U-turn, tries to slow down for...

[01:26:31] She's trying her hardest to get into the truck as Leatherface is wielding his chainsaw closer and closer to her.

[01:26:37] And, you know, you know she's going to make it, I guess.

[01:26:39] But you don't really...

[01:26:40] No, you don't.

[01:26:41] Yeah.

[01:26:41] And then you have these unbelievable final shots.

[01:26:43] Just, like, her in the back of the pickup truck.

[01:26:46] And then the dance.

[01:26:47] And her scream is just pure madness.

[01:26:49] It's madness distilled into its, like, essence.

[01:26:52] And then she starts laughing.

[01:26:53] Yeah.

[01:26:53] And then she starts laughing because she's completely, like, snapped.

[01:26:56] Gone.

[01:26:57] Yeah.

[01:26:57] She's never going to be the same.

[01:26:59] Obviously.

[01:27:00] And Leatherface is dancing.

[01:27:02] Like, it has a kind of pure nihilistic just, this is where we are right now as a society.

[01:27:10] It reminded me of the Star Wars kid meme.

[01:27:12] Do you remember that poor kid?

[01:27:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:27:14] The rest of development.

[01:27:15] Yeah, exactly.

[01:27:16] He's flailing around.

[01:27:17] You know, he's a husky guy.

[01:27:18] And that's it.

[01:27:20] Yeah, it's very abrupt to the end.

[01:27:21] So you see him, like, it's the morning light.

[01:27:23] You don't know the movie's going to end.

[01:27:25] Like, maybe we're going to find out.

[01:27:26] And then all of a sudden just cut to black.

[01:27:28] Right.

[01:27:29] Okay, so here's what I want to ask you.

[01:27:31] One, I think, a really unsettling, this isn't a question, but one really unsettling thing

[01:27:34] is when you stop and you think, you're like, oh, they're all just still out there.

[01:27:38] Yeah.

[01:27:39] Like, usually in horror movies since then that I watched, like, there is some resolution

[01:27:42] that the killer gets killed.

[01:27:44] Yeah.

[01:27:44] And you're like, no, these guys are just there.

[01:27:46] You might run into them.

[01:27:47] And, you know, living in Texas and traveling a ton in Texas, you do go to places where it

[01:27:54] feels like behind, I think, like, horror movies in general just give you a sense of all this

[01:28:00] stuff that I don't know about, like, where I feel like a total outsider.

[01:28:04] Like, this is what could be going on.

[01:28:06] They could be doing stuff like this.

[01:28:08] Yeah.

[01:28:08] But I was going to say the same thing.

[01:28:10] I used to drive across country when I was a kid.

[01:28:12] Every summer we would drive from Miami to California and Texas takes the longest.

[01:28:16] And I'm watching these things because, you know, it was early 80s.

[01:28:19] It wasn't that different from the way this movie looks.

[01:28:22] And it's like, oh, man, if I had seen this as a young kid, I would have been freaked the

[01:28:27] fuck out.

[01:28:28] You know?

[01:28:28] There are places of great beauty that you go through and really nice people.

[01:28:32] And then places where, like, society has forgotten.

[01:28:35] Like, you can see the towns.

[01:28:36] They have all boarded up, like, storefronts in the downtown, the little downtown area.

[01:28:41] And then you go through places where they have one industry.

[01:28:44] And it's one that reeks its smells, which this place does also.

[01:28:48] You know, like, and like, you're like, yeah, what goes on here?

[01:28:52] It could just be people trying to make a living and like working an honest job in an economy

[01:28:57] that and a political system that won't support blue collar jobs anymore.

[01:29:02] Or it could be like they've all been driven insane and they're going to kill you.

[01:29:06] Right.

[01:29:07] So the other thing is, like, when I'm left with how unsettled I was at the end of this

[01:29:12] movie, unlike a lot of the other slasher movies I've seen, this one makes humans be meat so

[01:29:19] strongly and clearly.

[01:29:21] Not like the victims are getting slashed.

[01:29:22] We're all meat.

[01:29:24] And everything that might come with that statement, right?

[01:29:27] Everything from animal rights and the suffering of sentient beings to like, we're all going

[01:29:31] to die.

[01:29:31] We're all just bodies to like the grotesque nature of existence.

[01:29:35] Like the dirtiness of us.

[01:29:37] And this movie is just dirty in this way.

[01:29:40] Like you from Franklin peeing into the cup all the way to like the flies and the dead bodies

[01:29:45] and the bones of everything.

[01:29:47] It's just dirty.

[01:29:48] Yeah.

[01:29:48] And also on the borderline between sanity and insanity.

[01:29:51] And we could just teeter over at any point.

[01:29:54] We are not that far from, you know, whatever made them that way.

[01:29:58] Like probably was a set of normal things just slowly spiraling down into some sort of

[01:30:04] cannibalistic.

[01:30:05] Yeah.

[01:30:06] They are in their own way trying to survive in a society that really wishes they were gone.

[01:30:13] You know, like they've been fired from the slaughterhouse because they have these new

[01:30:16] modern techniques and more efficient ways of killing the animals.

[01:30:20] And so they're just like, this is what we have to do.

[01:30:23] The old ways.

[01:30:23] We're holding on to the old ways.

[01:30:24] The killing people who come to the house and eating them.

[01:30:27] And then not letting a single part of their body go to waste.

[01:30:31] Yeah.

[01:30:32] Even their face.

[01:30:33] So in the second movie, I guess it's made clear that they were all workers at the slaughterhouse

[01:30:38] and got fired.

[01:30:39] I don't know.

[01:30:39] I haven't seen the second one.

[01:30:41] I want to.

[01:30:41] Like that's on my short list.

[01:30:43] I'm wary of it because a lot of people that I saw talking about it want to disavow the

[01:30:47] sequels, like all of the sequels.

[01:30:49] But I think the two, the one that Tobey Hooper directed in the 80s is, I think, respected

[01:30:55] as, okay, he's taking it to a more explicitly comic place.

[01:30:59] That's what I've read by people.

[01:31:01] And Dennis Hopper is in it and there's just a lot of fun performances.

[01:31:04] So I think it might be worth seeing.

[01:31:06] I don't know.

[01:31:06] Maybe we could do it for a bonus episode sometime next Halloween or something.

[01:31:10] But this movie is just so good and I'm glad you like it.

[01:31:14] It's pretty damn iconic, man.

[01:31:15] Like I know, like intellectually, I know that horror movies can be really well done.

[01:31:20] And I obviously like Hitchcock and like the suspense in general.

[01:31:24] But to see sort of like the earliest versions of this kind of horror being done well, because

[01:31:31] clearly he cared about his craft as he was doing it.

[01:31:33] Like these are not throwaway shots in this movie.

[01:31:36] The filmmaking seems super precise throughout.

[01:31:39] You know, it's like that couch in the house, which is a mishmash of all different kinds

[01:31:45] of like humans and animals.

[01:31:46] And you don't know what's what.

[01:31:48] This movie has that craft too, where it's at the one hand, it's very well thought out.

[01:31:52] But on the other hand, it's also completely crazy.

[01:31:54] And but like a mishmash of different like zombie vampire, like its own defining genre slasher.

[01:32:02] Like I do feel like maybe it's the sympathy that I feel sometimes for the Sawyer family.

[01:32:07] I think like the filmmaker like feels like they're kindred spirits.

[01:32:10] They're just the demonic version of like the directors in Hollywood.

[01:32:15] There's something really good about a filmmaker early on in their career when they haven't

[01:32:20] learned the rules quite yet.

[01:32:22] But I just recently saw an interview with Orson Welles where he's talking about the cinematographer

[01:32:25] who agreed to work with him for Citizen Kane and how the cinematographer was experienced.

[01:32:32] But he worked with him because he's like, because you don't have any you don't know any

[01:32:34] of the rules.

[01:32:35] So like, I don't need to worry about you.

[01:32:36] Like, yeah, yeah.

[01:32:37] You do get the sense he doesn't know the rules.

[01:32:39] They've had tons of trouble getting funding for it.

[01:32:41] I think there's a sad story where the actors like barely made any money from it because

[01:32:45] they had sold the rights to get a little more budget.

[01:32:49] And then it becomes a huge hit, but was not critically well received.

[01:32:53] Not unsurprisingly.

[01:32:53] I mean, I can imagine.

[01:32:55] All right.

[01:32:56] Good.

[01:32:56] Yeah, I really liked it.

[01:32:57] Awesome.

[01:32:57] That's our Halloween episode.

[01:32:59] We're gonna have to come up with a spooky pun title for this episode.

[01:33:02] Yeah, we should.

[01:33:04] Join us next time on Very Bad Wizards.

[01:33:08] Very Bad Wizards.

[01:33:10] No.

[01:33:11] No.

[01:33:30] Just a very bad wizard.